shepherdess's Blog

Re: Don't want to be a trio

Added after reading above post:  I fear that Magdalene has swung the Eddie stick for all of us...and may I add that I totally agree with everything she has said. 

OMG...this story takes the cake...oh! it can't take the cake because your Wife is eating it AND sharing it with her boyfriend!

Your therapist/counselor really said that to you?  I think you need to get a new counselor because anyone who would say that either doesn't know the whole story or should have their license to practice revoked...their job is to point out the facts to you and guide you through healthy decision making.  Be concerned after your son...lead you to the realization that Wife is wrong and in need of help....and show you how pathetic and weak it is to allow your partner to take on a lover.  Are you sure you aren't from Asia or France or something?!!

The ONLY thing you got right in your update is the fact that nothing has truly changed...oh wait...because you have gone another month without doing something about the situation makes it all that much more exasperating....that is change of a sort...I guess...it is just MORE pathetic. 

Your Wife IS using you...she's a cake eater and a user ...you ARE being a doormat....Your wife, the mother of your child is dating while she is still legally married to you.  This is called Adultery in most cultures and societies..and normally looked down upon.  You are sending YOUR Wife out to be or should I say have SEX/Make Love with another man.  Shame on BOTH of you for being this type of example or role model to your child...the two of you are teaching him absolutely the wrong way to have relationships...or be married...

If Basil doesn't give you a firm whack with the Eddie stick...may be I should give you a swift kick! 

Look....Lionel Ritchie can sing "Truly" until the cows come home...but SHe don't truly love you back cuz she truly loves her OM....you know why?...because YOU are letting her go to him when she needs her FIX of him...She's an addict you know...and you are co-dependent because you are addicted to her.

Sir, you are making your bed with her...the only thing is she doesn't want to lie down in it with you. Nothing is going to change until you insist that she choose between you and your son AND the OM.

I believe I feel Basil winding up....and I won't stop him.

Shepherdess

 

 

Re: Just another Dorothy

Magdalene:

Please STOP apologizing for expressing your opinion or even giving the wonderful, thoughtful advice and encouragement that you have given...You are spot on with each of your points that you made above...For MLB it is very important to have a LISTENING heart and mind....here is where BIG portions of compassion will come in to play.  I pray every day that indeed his wife is trying to get the witches broom  (doing all the things required to gain re-entry in to the home) and then click her heels to truly come home...content with being in her own skin.

You needn't apologize...if anyone rambles here it is me...and they haven't booted me or told me to shut up yet...not that I would. 

Keep posting ...I miss reading your thoughtful writing ...even ministers to me. (I need it sometimes also)

Shepherdess

PS join us also over at the CyberHotFlash: A Safe Haven for Women in MLC .

Re: Just another Dorothy

Magdalene:

Please come and ramble privately at the new PRIVATE forum LADIES ONLY CyberHotFlash....I think you need to get this stuff off your back or out of your head....

Shepherdess

Re: Just another Dorothy

 Last night she told me I need you to be my husband, not my father....a clue perhaps??

-mlbhome

Private Forum for Ladies ONLY

CyberHotFlash Forum is a PRIVATE Forum for Women ONLY!  It is not visible to the public and your membership MUST be approved prior to posting there.  

Ladies if you would like to to have a more private venue to discuss Women in MLC this is the venue you have been looking for.....please stop by and start a topic, introduce yourself...get the discussion going in PRIVATE. 

Shepherdess

CyberHotFlash Forum

Re: My story

Forgive me for being snarky today....my reaction may have been a bit snippish...forgive me...but as many of you know, much of my concern IS for the children and teenagers that are involved in these situations.  On so many occasions they are set to the side and dismissed as not being a part or being effected by the MLC W's actions...when indeed they bear the secondary brunt of her behavior.  The most important fact in this discussion IS..the H is an adult and is expected to act accordingly and take care of himself...The children are just that...children...they need to be taken care of and considered in the changes that are occurring. Their parents have been their safety net and now that safety net is in question. 

Jack...even if your D knew that she could call you at any time like Basil's son...that she not feel trapped in her mother's MLC...AND that your W is aware that you have given your D this out...well, that is all that I am suggesting...then indeed...she makes the decision...you have ensured that she is comfortable in doing so.  Children are not possessions or property and many times in these situations they end up being treated as such.  Your D will appreciate the fact that you have stepped up for her...that you are willing to defend her even in the face of her mother, who at present is being extremely selfish and doesn't have her child's best interest at heart.  That is all I am saying...

Sorry for being snarky....

Shepherdess

Re: My story

I get it...Jack...I said the same exact thing as Basil....let your daughter decide...the thing is or difference is...it's YOUR job as her father to grease the skids for her with her mother. I mean by all means make it easier on you and your wife because the two of YOU feelings are too raw right now..it doesn't matter that your daughter maybe be hurting in her present environment with your W...I mean she is living with a woman in MLC...a great teacher and role model.  You are setting your daughter up for the same exact thing as Basil's son was going through when he was trapped with the MLC Wife...he finally went and got the boy and life changed for him...life got better for his child.  The plate didn't look so full any more...because he relieved his son of the burden of his mother's MLC.

You know, I don't respond to your thread because you discount everything I say to you...You must realize the advice all the men are giving you is coming from the fact that they listened to me from the beginning...it is guidance that I have given to them at the beginning of their situations...it worked ...so now they are passing it on to you. 

Jack...Is it time to talk to your W about letting your D choose where she wants to live?  Your D needs to be a priority...not your W's selfish MLC.

- shepherdess

I still feel strongly about your making your D the priority....you aren't making her a priority if she doesn't like being with your W and you fear confronting your W to help her live where she is most comfortable.  The two of you need to set your raw feelings aside for a moment and do what's best for your D....Basil wouldn't you agree in light of your own situation with your son?  Maybe, not?...

Shepherdess

How Rebuild Trust and Honesty...

How to Rebuild Honesty

How do you learn to trust someone again when you find out they've been lying to you for years.
Why is it that you have to push, and push just to get your spouse to admit something, but they continue to lie to your face?
...that is until you have proof.
You are not a lone. Trust and honesty are BIG issues. Teaching couples the principles to restoring honesty has been one of the biggest challenges of my career.
It has also been one of the most rewarding challenges (I'll explain in a second).
Consider these two posts from my blog.
"I have tried for almost a year now to get the truth so I can know what happened and try to move on. I feel like I can't trust anything that comes from him...."
"I have in the past lied to my husband; not about an affair or anything that seemed important at the time. Usually it was to prevent an argument BUT it did just the opposite..."
Which post best represents you? Are you the liar or the one desperate to finally get the truth?
People honestly believe they know how to have open honest relationships.
However, what I find most of the time is that VERY FEW people have a clue. That means people on both sides.
Many wives push and push their husbands to be open and transparent, but what they are doing is pushing them away by doing and saying the wrong things.
For example, you may want the details of the affair, but your spouse may actually be afraid to give you those details. Why?
...because of the emotional outcome.
It took me a few decades to crack this communication code, but I finally did it. In the last 30 years, I am proud to say I've finally discovered the communication strategies that can help you get what you want.
And that is a relationship where nothing is hidden and everything is exposed. Imagine pure honesty, transparency and love surrounded by a protective fence where no adulterous woman (or man) can get in.
This is possible and I can teach you, BUT...
...before you become too excited, let me warn you. You may not get exactly what you want.
At least right away. This approach will most likely be completely different than what you think you know. However the success ratio for my clients has been very high.
You don't even need to have a willing spouse (at first).
For example, I don't preach forgiveness, I teach something else... which completely takes the pressure off you and your spouse.
In addition I teach you to avoid saying "I'm sorry." Those two words, especially after an affair usually do more harm than good. Instead I coach you to do something else...
I've discovered 5 major factors that go into rebuilding honesty. Not building, I said REBUILDING. There is a big difference. Let me explain.
Last year about this time a couple I knew lost their house to a fire. Almost 75% of the house was destroyed. After they tore down the structure, they thought about rebuilding on the foundation.
After speaking to several engineers they were quickly advised to tear the foundation up.
Why?
Water inside the pipes of their walls and their radiant floors froze after the fire and the structural integrity was compromised.
That is why they rebuilt their house... from foundation to roof.
And that is why you need to learn the strategy for rebuilding the honesty (especially after an affair.)
I've recently released a brand new program designed to help to Rebuild Honesty.
This program is just for people who need to eliminate the lies. This will be your manual if you really need help in this area.
I will show you both how to develop true transparency.
My new program isn't fancy. In fact it's something you can download. However it's different.
In fact it is a audio interview where I actually talk directly to you and give you advice you can use right now. The interview is 1 hour and 35 minutes. In addition I have a 58 page manuscript.
This isn't theory, these are lessons I've applied to my clients over the course of 30 plus years and face to face counseling.
Inside my new program I discuss strictly how to Rebuild Honesty. If your relationship feels like you cannot trust each other, than please read what I can offer you:

• 5 factors needed for repairing a breach in trust. (And why you can make your marriage better than ever if you follow these five principles.)

• The single most effective way to establish trust with your partner if you cheated.

• Why saying "I'm sorry" can be ineffective and do more harm than good. (Instead of apologizing you must demonstrate this one thing.)

• The 7 forms of trust. (And how you can use the other six forms to rebuild the one that was destroyed.)

• 5 ways to build a transparent relationship. (Practicing this with your spouse will help you develop open and free communication.)

• How to motivate your partner to share everything with you without making them feel like they are attached at the hip.

• 13 ways to reduce suspicion in your relationship. (This will come in handy when your partner wonders who you're talking to on the phone.)

• How to get your spouse to openly express their thoughts and feelings with you. (This strategy will help you reinforce the good things in your relationship and eliminate problems as they arise - eliminating any new resentment.)

• Why feeling suspicious isn't bad or unjustified. (I'll teach you how to quickly resolve your ill feelings and work through them with your spouse without a huge blow up and making matters worse.)

• What to do when you start to feel that your partner is fooling around again. (How to talk about your concerns and get clarity quickly without yelling, screaming and fighting.)

• How to get a clean slate and start all over again. (This process isn't easy, but it has proven effective for rebuilding trust and keeping the relationship healthy and strong for years.)

• 3 questions you need to answer when you've have an affair. (These are the top 3 three questions your partner wants to know in order to start over.)

• How to keep the lines of communication free and open without shutting each other out. (There are 11 things that will instantly kill your chances at redeveloping a deep emotional connection. How many of these mistakes are you making?)

• How to move on in your relationship and reduce the probability that another affair will happen again. (I will show you how to agree on new boundaries that will help you both feel safe and secure without feeling trapped, imprisoned or micro managed.)

• How to build a fence around your relationship and keep danger out. (When trouble comes knocking, you will both know how the kick it out.)

How to Rebuild Honesty

Remember, everything you do right now in your relationship is either helpful or harmful. You can choose to make things better or worse.
How to Rebuild the Honesty will give you specific step-by-step strategies you need to save your relationship and start over with a clean slate.
Warm Regards,
Dr. Frank Gunzburg

Rules for being a Human Being...

Re: Just another Dorothy

 The thing I am most curious about is why some women fly right through this stage without a blink of an eye and others of us are thrown into the jaws of MLC.  I have experienced a period of depression several years back and I'm just curious if those of us that are more prone to depression/anxiety are also more prone to this side of MLC? 

-beenthere

I think you have touched on something here...but it is not necessarily true for every woman that goes through MLC.  Much of depression and anxiety can be traced back to a physical cause, such as hormonal imbalance, allergies,  neurological/sleep problems and/or childhood issues that have been left unresolved for years. The cause is never what you think it is...AND...it is many different things tangled together....intertwined and knotted.  After much counseling where I thought much of my depression, anxiety AND MLC was based on my relationship with my mother...it ended up really being a combination of my bad relationship with my mother AND an event that occurred when I was 19 years old, which I believed defined me for many years.  I was not the "good girl" my father wanted me to be , but a "Bad girl" because I allowed certain things to happen to me one night.  After hearing the story of that night and ALL the guilt I harbored from it...my therapist looked at me stunned saying " you have been living a lie most of your life...it was NOT your fault...you, my dear have been taking the blame for someone else raping you...YOU are NOT a "Bad girl".  You don't have to set yourself up any more.  It even took time wrapping my mind around that idea...but I did and it did play a role in why I gave myself permission to be "bad"....I already was...and I was not deserving of the good things I had.  It is sort of way that some people self sabotage themselves.  Many addicts do this to themselves also.

IMHO...it is the women who have always had great coping skills and strong self-esteem that breeze through this time in their lives....they Transition...they don't fall in to crisis.  Women who know how to release their tension, anger frustration in health manner also transition better.  Depression is anger turned inward...somehow when the anger is released...depression and anxiety dissipates.

MLC is a crisis of the Mind...Body...Spirit...they ALL have to be looked at...not one ignored.

Shepherdess

Re: IMPORTANT: SPAM and Solicitation Not Allowed

SHE IS BANNED!!! I have reported her name and e-mailed to Lefora...Thanks for the help!

Re: Just another Dorothy

Ladies AND Gents:

I am going to be completely honest and tell you that even I STILL struggle with all of this MLC junk.  It is a day-to-day process...an up hill battle on some days and smooth sailing on others.  Most of my problems are primarily physical these days...dealing with the pendulum swing of hormones, adjusting to using a CPAP machine so I am no longer sleep deprived...the struggle of dealing with SAD (Seasonal Affective Disorder) AND now, the discovery that I am highly allergic to dust, molds and mildew...so much so that when I was tested a few months ago I was rushed to the hospital.  WHO KNEW?!!!! 

I am even tempted...(satan seems to enjoy seeing me squirm this way)

Yes, just a a few months ago a long lost boyfriend (a handsome Major in the Marine Corps then) found me at Facebook. Our history isn't important except for the fact that I was the OW...I filled the hole that his W couldn't or wouldn't fill. For years I felt great guilt over this relationship that I tried to avoid even back then.  It was a huge fantasy...something that I had totally forgotten about because he used me and dumped me when he realized his children were more important then any relationship we had...I had allowed him to use me...a habit I had when I was young to feel accepted and loved (and one that was resolved during my MLC counseling)... BUT...it could have been so easy to let this man back in to my life...he was still handsome, intelligent at 60 (men age better than women)...knew exactly what to say to me...NOT your typical OM looks wise. He said he didn't really want to start something...he was divorced and remarried with 2nd family, his 1st grown and gone...but now I was married with children.

I kept it at arms length...he wanted to apologize for what he did to me in the past. He brought me up-to-date on his story, as I did mine. But in amongst the story being told was the same wonderful things that make a woman become addicted to this treatment.  He told me how beautiful I still was...how  intelligent I was, my kind heart...he saw my abilities and talents....yet, at the same time he was very happy in his new marriage. It would have been so easy to pick up the addiction all over again...but what a hypocrite I would be if I did....the WINMLC Expert doing exactly what she tells all the people not to do.  You see, the addiction isn't really about the OM...it is about the NEED to be noticed for who you are...to be appreciated...to be seen as something special...to be adored...even worshiped....to just be noticed for who we are and the efforts we are making on a daily basis.  Most families don't do well with encouraging and appreciating those under their nose....it is a very bad habit to fall in to in families.  It is something that MANY women suffer from AND whirl out in to MLC space because of....MLC OZ is where everyone loves and appreciates you for who you are and what you do, sacrifice and accomplish.    It isn't the guy or the person...it is what the person does for you to fill the hole/s...the emptiness. It IS indeed a drug of sorts...just a tiny taste of it and soon a person is back wanting it all the time.  The drug is that this person sees you as a stand alone person...not a wife, a mother, a co-worker..this person sees you as WOMAN... beautiful, intelligent, talented, romantic, sexy...everything that everyone at home does not....you can't fool those people any more....they know you inside and out!

I told my husband about the Facebook friendship.  He read the correspondence that we had had..seeing that I was keeping the discussion neutral, yet the guy was was teasing me with compliments and velvet words...IT COULD HAVE BEEN SOOOOO EASY!  All I had to do was reach down and send the same words back....BAM....I would have been hooked again...in it up to my eyebrows.

Now that my husband knew and was aware...I knew that I couldn't even be friends with this guy...I would NOT put my husband in this position of questioning my creditability ever again...I politely thanked him for contacting me again, accepted his apology for whatever he thought he did to me years prior, but told him that we couldn't be friends.  I removed him as a friend and even blocked him at Facebook. 

My point behind telling you this story is this:  unless you are aware of your need and you are fulfilling in another manner other than through affairs with men (EA or PA)...I pour myself in to my writing, this forum and my coaching...then you WILL be drawn back in to the Tornado again.  

Life has its ups and downs....when I am down I press onward no matter what because I know I will get stuck if I don't.  I will not go there again...When I am up I celebrate it with all that I have.  I have learned that life isn't perfect and God never promised us happiness...He promises us that he will provide us what we need ...our daily bread...He promises us joy and eternal life ...blessings when we bless others.  I have come to the conclusion that I work too hard at being happy and when I do I miss the chances of savoring the JOY...the contentment..even the PEACE.  At this point in my life...I need and want Peace and Joy...Happiness comes and it goes like the tide....I have chosen not to be pulled in by the undertow...I choose to ride the waves.

I hope I have made sense...hopefully...this has helped.

COME RIDE THE WAVES WITH ME!!!


Shepherdess

Re: IMPORTANT: SPAM and Solicitation Not Allowed

I gotcha...She's BANNED...Thanks for the heads up...apparently she hit everyone!  

Shepherdess

IMPORTANT: SPAM and Solicitation Not Allowed

We have recently had an increase in SPAM and Solicitation e-mails here at the Forum.  Please notify me privately if you are receiving SPAM e-mail or solicitations from other members at the forum.  I have recently warned a new member for doing this and it will not be tolerated here at this forum.  I greatly appreciate your help in this matter.

Shepherdess

Re: My story

 Then again, maybe it's just the innate goodness and innocence of the human child that prompted their "right" decision.

-basilduke

Re: in crisis

Just keeping you on your toes...that is all...don't mean to micro-manage...but it is our job to be your look-outs and your reality checks.  

So, far...you are passing muster with Gold Stars!

Shepherdess

Re: in crisis

MLB:

This all sounds very promising...but...as you probably already know...UNTIL she is physically OUT of the OM's Apartment you shouldn't even be negotiating anything in the future....you probably shouldn't have even let her in to the house yesterday.  Words...Words...Words so far...there hasn't been a move, no indication that she has cut things off with him...no counseling appointment attended...JUST talk!  

You MUST demonstrate to her that you are not a push over AND you will NOT be fooled a third time around.  Letting her in the house last night is like a salesmen putting his foot in the door in case you decide you want to close it while he is throwing his pitch.  Right now she is just "pitching" what she is going to do....there has been no real action.  Everything should remain shut down to her until she has gotten rid of the OM..HE is still very much a part of all of this.  Your son shouldn't even talk to her or respond to a text until she texts him her new address at the Long stay hotel....then and only then does she earn his response. You should have kept her out on the porch to deliver the check...your D could have come outside to speak to her.  

Do you understand what I am getting to here...MLB...she EARNS entrance in to the house.  She EARNS speaking to her son.  She EARNS even stopping by the house unannounced...she can't even do this right now.   She fools you the first time shame on her, she fools you a second time...maybe shame on her and you...she fools you a third time...SHAME on YOU!! 

Don't put your guard down yet...she has proven NOTHING at this point other than a desire to return. Celebration doesn't occur until six months down the road, she has had No Contact with OM, gone to counseling and returned home and together the two of you feel that your lives are on a different track....then we celebrate and pat each other on the back...it's too early.  She hasn't even gotten out of the hands of the OM yet!  She is still living like an adulteress!! I only say these things to give you a reality check at this point.

The door is open...she hasn't walked through the door and closed it on the past several months ...it doesn't mean that she won't decide to retreat yet again. Yes, be hopeful...but don't be stupid and set yourselves up for a fall!  MAKE HER PROVE HER WORDS ARE TRUE!

Shepherdess

Re: in crisis

 I think that you have been extremely flexible with her. She should be camping outside your house begging for your forgiveness and that of the children. She said 'he knows something is up!' so she has not told him! Why has she not told him yet?!The tougher you are about this, the more she will respect you. If she senses that that door will remain open no matter what, she will continue with her bad behaviour, thinking that the door will remain open unconditionally. It may be that the guy is becoming tired of the responsibility over her. If he is a player, she will be in the way of getting new recruits.It maybe that they had an argument before he left. It maybe that she wanted to join him and he didn't want that. He may well have said that he wanted her out by the time he got back. Equally, he may well get back and make up with her!

-guest_guest

Until Nomad mentioned these things they really hadn't crossed my mind in this way...caution is my gut reaction with any attempt to return when an MLC Woman wants back in after leaving physically and mentally.

It would not hurt to press her a bit on why she is in no hurry to get out of the OM's apartment.  Again, you bring up her pride and going to her Uncle's to stay for a tiny bit...even if it was just for a few days until she got in to a Long-stay hotel would be a demonstration that she was meaning what she was saying. This one point about her pride makes me cautious as...when a person is truly broken their is no pride...you are humbled to the point of being flat on your face willing to do anything and everything to get back in OR to be forgiven.  

There is great wisdom in what Nomad is saying about making it tougher to get back in.  Remember the door of opportunity has been opened to her...not the other way around...this is why a time table might be something to consider. You are in control of this...NOT her...she needs to know and understand this... 

I am only saying these things because you need to think them through before hand...not during or after the fact.  Being aware of all the possiblities makes you better prepared for anything that could happen.

Shepherdess

Re: in crisis

Exactly...all the more reason for you to stand at the open door and wait to see if she will take action.  

Shut down the think tank...because this means that you are not emotionally detached....you need to remain emotionally detached until you start seeing concrete actions and movement.  Take note of what is being said to you here by others as ALL could be a possibility...BUT what is important is what she doing...not saying...what she is doing!  I would feel better if she didn't wait for this guys return...she should just get the heck out of the apartment and start doing what she said she would do to make things better.  She owes the OM nothing...she isn't married to him...she is married to YOU!  This would be my only question at this point...why not move out immediately now that she has decided?  I get her wanting to do it her way but...isn't this her problem anyways...wanting to always be in control....doing it her way!  You told her how to earn her way back in...now she must do it.  There is nothing wrong with giving her a deadline with your boundaries....like you must be out of the OM's by our return from Thanksgiving on Florida (PS you do not help her do this...move that is...let her take care of it) She must be in counseling by Christmas, along with NC with OM.  You will not consider her moving back in until you have had at least 2-3 couples sessions with the IC and the therapist feels confident that the two of you are ready. 

I am not trying to discourage you about this development and it is indeed the open door that I spoke of...but you must stand in the open door with caution...that is all I am saying.

Keep praying for her heart to soften AND for Him to lead her out of her situation with OM quickly.

I will respond to your private e-mail in the AM....as I must help get the kids ready for school after being out for a week because of the storm.

Shepherdess

Re: in crisis

Brutal words but Truth that fuels all the more reason for your W to get her act together and put her words in to action...your daughter deserves a BIG HUG and support...she is NOT enabling anything!!!  It is exactly what your W needs until her words are actions and then some.  She gets a BIG gold star from me on her reaction. 

The solution for the she is only doing this to get home so she can be a part of the holidays....create a flexible time table for all of this...one or two months (after Christmas for sure) out of OM's apartment in counseling with a gradual and I mean gradually reintroduction in to family events according to her success with counseling and No Contact with OM.  I am going to tell you right now that she will get away from him AND unless he dumped her...she will still need the a fix of the idiot in some way...she doesn't know this yet because she is still living with him...she can have her drug at any time without repercussion.  She will break the NC ever so slightly at first...remember she is an addict...this is where you must use compassion, tolerance and understanding of what an addict goes through when withdrawing from their drug of choice even an OM...another reason why we need to talk at some point...you have no idea what you are in for when she comes home.

Shepherdess

Re: in crisis

I will back on later to respond in more detail...my only immediate response is:

DO NOT give in to the idea of making it easier for her...I hate to say it but your TOUGH LOVE approach has to be played out to the very letter or you and your kids will go through this all over again in time...you absolutely DO NOT let her stay at your house while you are away for Thanksgiving...she MUST make plans with relatives or friends that will report back to you that she is following through.  I get that you get this point...I must make sure that as much as you are saying this here you must follow through....nothing has changed yet...she is still in his home...there is no reason why she can't get her butt out of there before he comes home...and then break the news to him. Even the mistletoe thing was a bit across the line...I understand why you did it...but....pull that guard back up until she moves out and gets her act in to gear.  Your D is exactly right...as always she is wise beyond your years. 

GO SLOWLY!!! NO RUSHING!!!  ALL the moves come from her direction, not yours at this point....even calling, texting...whatever...do not be overly helpful...let her do this herself...this is very important to her...to have control over fixing it herself...she is trying to prove to herself that she can do it!

We may need to chat on this...now that you and your W are moving in to a different stage of the MLC....believe it or not...if you think the tornado part of the MLC is hard....getting the broom, clicking her heels and coming home is a delicate and tricky time also. PLUS until she has proven and earned your trust...your guard must remain up!!!  

Talk more later...Family and I are escaping the house for the 1st time since storm...I fear we are experiencing cabin fever.  

Shepherdess

PS Nomad has some very good questions that should be answered and pertinent at this point.  Remember she must save face....she has lost everything...she will not tell you the truth about OM and their sitch...

Re: in crisis

Well it was three hours.This was the most rational she has been in 6 mos.We met in a park near here, walked the lake twice sat some walked some more.In a nut shell:I asked how her new job was going. She loves it, the work, the people, the environment. She says that they want to train her for a Production Manager position. It sounds very interesting and she was as happy talking about it as I have seen her in a long time.Now, I never got angry, raised my voice, was cynical, or kept score. The only time I brought up the past was to use it as an example of past pattern of behavior, which she agreed with.I asked "why am I here"??. She started to cry and said she just can't do it anymore. Not being around the kids, missing me, home, her family and so on. She said things with OM were"good", but more on that later.

-mlbhome

Sounds like a good start.  The change in the work environment may have helped in leading her to see that OM would just NOT fit in down the road.  The reason why everything still seems okay with OM is because she is still there with OM...more on that later.

She went into how her son won't speak to her, never thought he would do it this long, misses D, like making her breakfast, making sure she is in bed on time, cooking for us ( she's a great cook along with the bakery), doing the things around the house, like laundry(?) she cried very hard getting all this out.She asked " if there was the slightest chance, and she knows all the horrible things she has done, and said, if she could come back and have us work towards the intimacy and the relationship we had.Talked alot about what has happened, not as hurtful topic but as a cause and effect thing. I asked why now, why not weeks/months ago. She said "during the summer and when I was gone the first time and then when I was home, I could not stop thinking of being with him. It was all the time, it was so strong that it "smothered me". "All I knew I had to be with him."

-mlbhome

"I could not stop thinking of being with him. It was all the time, it was so strong that it "smothered me". "All I knew I had to be with him." This is a description of addiction...she was not in love or anything...she was/is addicted to him.
 

And now??? I asked..."i still have feelings for him, but the feelings of being home, being with the kids, especially D, and I have very strong feelings for you, and all this has been eating at me, and that's stronger then it was...this is all so weird"She said she has been feeling this way "for awhile" and she says it keeps getting stronger, that I've known I have had to face a decision either way, and this is the way I "need" to go.What about OM..."he knows I'm not happy being away from the kids and I cry every night"..."and me?"She said "I know you won't believe it, but I still love you, really love you, I lost the intimacy, and I want that back, and I;m afraid that after all that's happened that we won't be able to get it back."OM has an "inkling" of something going on, and knows I meeting you today".Some surface conversation about all that...then I asked "I want an honest answer...has he done for you ANYTHING that he said he would do, meaning you told me all this stuff you two were going to do, places you were going, has any of that happened?"  I got the time excuse, the work excuse, the $$ excuse..I said yes or no. "NO" she said. I asked if he knows you were so upset about the kids and the situation that you cried every night why didn't he cx his Fla. trip??" She said it was planned long in advance. I said he only put in for the time off last week, (from my spy) doesn't sound like a long term plan to me, is that what he told you that he had it planned for a year??...she said yes. I said he only put in for the time off last week ....silence and tears...I asked did you ask him not to go?? Silence, ....she said he wanted me to go but I don't have the money, or time off.....I said answer the question, did you ask him not to go??  Silence and tears...I said "ok, in all honesty, he said he was going, you asked him not to go, he said "tuff $hit" and went anyway with his loser buddy". Tears, she said.."he didn't say tuff $hit".

-mlbhome

Despite all of this she is still addicted to him...her eyes are opening and this is a good thing...BUT...she IS addicted and she has no idea how she will feel when she is finally away from him...in fact she will feel the same way as before...she will feel smothered by the thought of this jerk.  She WILL go through withdrawal after leaving him...she and YOU  needs to be prepared for the grief and withdrawal she will HAVE to deal with to get past the OM.

She kept saying how horrible she was to me, and that she has to go over and above what we expect.I told her bottom line you have to permanently give him up ( she had told me this earlier), you have to give up people associated with him, you have to get out of that apt, and you have to BE IN counseling before I let you in the house. And you must be 110% commited, and DOING these thing or you stay where you are, or someplace else. Had a long disussion on each topic and she agreed to do it.She kept insisting that it will not be like last time and I said how do you know......she said " I don't have this constant feeling about having to see him, that's what's different, I mean I have feelings for him and breaking it off will be hard, but I want my kids and life back, and if this what has to happen than that's what happens. I'm just scared you and I will not get the intimacy back, but I want to try."We also talke about stupid stuff, and I showed her the "Mistletoe" Yankee Candle scent I had hanging in the car...I had extras and gave her one. Then I sat in the car and got under the  Hanging scent, and she looked and said what??, I said .."it's mistletoe...."  She leaned in and gave me a kiss, and said "it's not Xmas yet".So she seemed ready to drop the bomb on OM when he gets back, then move to a extended stay place about 4 miles from the house....I said if she does what she says , I'll pay half, or your parents will pay for it, and she said no. She also told me about the divorce that she did because I pressured to do it, ( which I called BS on) but she said she was praying that I would call and say something so that she could have cx'ed the filing. I asked what could I have said?? "I don't know, but I was hoping something". She said at the hearinfg I looked at her with so much disgust, and the environment that she was so scared that all she wanted was out of there. I asked you could have stopped it all right there??  She said she was so scared.....she just wanted out of there.Her money sitch is bad, but she insisted that she was old enough to get herself into this she'll get herself out, even if she has to work an extra job.

-mlbhome

This is all sounding very good as long as she means what she says and immediately acts upon it.  No stringing you along.  I wouldn't get your kids all excited about this yet....wait till you see ACTION>>>movement!  Words are only words at this point.

So... I told her think about all this, he's gone for the week, think hard on all this. IF you want to do this, there is no looking back, only forward, no regrets, and you focus on getting your relationships back together. I told her you have the info, it's your decision, I have no deadline.I told her if she wanted to talk, call, text or we can meet. If she is of the same mind frame Monday, I might meet her afetr work for a beer and a burger.Spoke to my attny and this effects nothing legally. He wished me luck.I tried to highlight this, excuse me if I add things as they pop into my head.And Shep, I, my family, and family in Indy, Ohio and Fla, thank you , you are an angel!! you too Basil!!!So it's up to her, all of it...so we'll see, and me I feel preety good.

-mlbhome

Slowly but surely do all of this....let her think AND YOU must think also.  You need to prepare your head, not put your guard down completely yet.  This conversation is only a first step...it is the Door Opening....you have stepped inside....given her the requirements...now you must stand there and wait to make sure she will ACT.  I pray that she is meaning what she is saying and that she acts quickly.  "So, it is all up to her, all of it..."  could never be a truer statement.

I am praying for all of you...I am here when you need.

Shepherdess

Re: in crisis

MLB:

Both Basil and I have been checking in all day to see how you are doing and how it went.  I have been wrapping you in prayer.  Hope to hear something soon.

On the duct tape idea (my father's favorite tool to fix anything)...Oh how I wish it was only duct tape that will solve this problem...but I fear that it isn't and it will cost a lot to fix.  To bad my recent campaign to increase Silver memberships didn't prove to be fruitful...even with free coaching sessions and free book when released...number of Silver memberships gained - Zippo, Zero, Nada.  Oh, well...I may have to get a real job. 

Awaiting your news.....

Shepherdess

Re: in crisis

First how are you surviving that storm.?? I saw waist deep water on the weather channel this morning,hope you are all dry.Ok....as Toto, what's the lesson?? I think in the midst of this it past thru my brain.I have a head full of flying monkeys....

-mlbhome

Re: in crisis

MLB

Your fears and your lack of not wanting to go down this road YET AGAIN...is very normal and justified.  Be honest and tell her this fact...be open about your feelings.

It is the very reason why she can't pack up her stuff from OM's house and move right back home...she lost that right the second time she walked out and then filed for divorce (this part of her leaving needs to be made clear to her at some point...she thinks you kicked her out...when she chose to leave by NOT ending the affair and then running to the OM and living with him...DO NOT get in to this tomorrow!)....she had the chance to return right away all the way up to the court date...she chose to fight you...she lost even this that day at court.

I can't help but keep going back to making sure  that all of this is kosher legally AND that you are not hurting your case if she yet again turns to and runs back to the loser.

I have been truthful about this part of the MLC...getting back together is just as hard emotionally as the beginning of the MLC...maybe more because there is no guarantee that the two of you will end up together...BUT...at least this time both of you can say that you honestly tried.  Forgiveness and healing is not easy...and there is more then just you that needs to do this...your children need to do this also.  

In the end it is still your job to make sure that your children are not being taken on another trip on her MLC train....she has to prove this to ALL of you.  If she is willing to RISK everything for this chance and do the work by your plan..WILLINGLY....then there is HOPE here.  If she fights it...she is not ready yet.  Worried1 has found this out...

Shepherdess