Has anyone seen the movie  Surrogates with Bruce Willis?

It so reminds me of MLC.

Well said.    

Eeyore,

You mentioned about your W

 "I believe she is completely underestimating the effect on the kids. "
 
This point is one that you should not underestimate. 

My Ex took a waitressing job to make extra cash.  She works Sat. nights and often stays after work to have a few drinks with friends.  She gets home about 1AM.  (Yes, I assume OM is included).    I stay at the house with the kids until she gets home. 
To maintain the illusion, she gets up to take the kids to church in the morning.  She finds it easy to skip every so often, but she leads a Bible study group, so the need to be there is obvious. 
My oldest son, age 15, is a typical teen.  He would prefer to sleep in.  Because she is too tired, she doesn't make him go to church with the rest of the family.   I just found out about this a few weeks ago.  We were weekly church goers for 17 years.
This past week, my son and two friends were picked up by the sheriff dept for smoking pot behind a building.
This is very abnormal for him and when I picked him up he cried for hours.  He new it was stupid.  We talked about people using drugs to escape reality.  That opened the door for a hour long discussion about how angry he was at his mom.  Especially that she had been bringing the other man into the house at least a dozen times.  My 11yr. old daughter also has cried in my arms over the same reason.  All the kids just want things back to "normal".
From the very beginning, the ExW was adamant that the kids would be fine as long as we didn't fight.

Bottom line..............be there for your kids and get them to talk.

For added humor, The current book she is working through in her Bible study group is Lies Women Believe.   I have read it.  I don't know how she can look at herself in the mirror.

Eeyore,

I understand what you are saying about "angry" responses.  I often feel the same way.  Still, I have found little to actually disagree with.  So substance trumps style.

I want to draw your attention back to MLBHOME's comment about a bull in a china shop.  That is exactly what your W is doing right now.  If you try to push, pull or frighten the bull, the damage she will do will be far worse than if whe makes it through the MLC at her own pace.  Either way, a lot of valuable china will be destroyed. The only time a husband can help with an MLC is if the W recognizes it at the very beginning and she and her H find a way to communicate and work together.  Even this is far from a sure thing.  In nearly all cases however, the H is clueless until it is too far into the process.  The W blames him for everything.  Then it is too late.
The reason I bring this up is that you still feel a deep love for your wife and above all you want to get that woman you love back.  You must realize that she really is two people that fluctuate at a moments notice daily or many times per day.  One part of her is just plain evil (Monster).  This part of her is strong, arrogant, selfish and spiteful.  You are the one that it hates the most.  Actaully the only one it hates more than you is the other part of her personality (Puppy).  The puppy part of her is sad, pitiful and needy.  The puppy part of her worships the Monster because it is strong. 
Don't waste time strying to understand or relate to either one.  Just be constant in who you are.  She is out of your control.  The woman you loved is gone forever.  She is being ripped apart and dismantled right before your eyes.  At best, a good and positive woman will emerge when she puts herslf back together.  Don't dream about this woman being the same person. Focus on improving yourself and protecting the kids.  You do not have to get mean and ugly.  If you are the calm and rational one, she will not be able to keep portraying you as the bad guy.  ( You can bet she has been telling this to her friends and family for a while now)  There is a chance (unlikely) that the woman that comes out of this a few years from now will realize the damage done and be willing to fix things.  Your job will be to be worth fighting for (self improvement) and to leave the bull to find her own way out of the china shop.

For the record, I moved out of the house and did not get a lawyer, because I wanted to be the "nice guy".  I got taken.  worse, my kids are paying for my lack of backbone. 
Interesting story.......
Today my daughter (first year in college) put on her Facebook page the "Five Things the World would be better off without"..... they were broccoli, skanky sluts, DIVORCE, Infidelity and Taco Bell. 

I'm not sure what's up with Taco Bell, but as you can see, she still carries the bitterness.  My ExW added a comment.      "sorry"        I think the Ex W might now be sorry that people she loves got hurt.  She is nowhere near thinking that what she did was wrong.

Fight nice, but FIGHT!

Guest,

One of the areas that I had the most difficulty getting through my skull was that my Ex did not feel guilty or remorseful.

Just last night, I confronted her with that question when we talked during kid swap.  In 2007, she found her "true love" and had an EA and then PA with him for over two years.  This summer, it finally ended and she replaced him with a local guy.
I asked her; if he was her "soul mate" and worth not trying to fix/save the marriage, would she now admit that she was wrong.
Her answer was that "the affair was wrong, but that he gave her the strength to stand up herself".  So the little negative of the adultery etc. was far outweighed by the new strength and independence she felt.

That sums it up.  Everything is justifiable. 

Like most stories I read re: MLC, I also want her to suffer some pain and feel guilt for the hurt she has caused.  But for the most part, I have learned to no longer focus on her life.  She is not worth the mental energy and time. 
MLC is like heading through a tunnel or the Black Forest.  She is bumbling through the dark and may or may not be going the right direction.  It takes years.  So much of what happens is internal.  The MLCer needs to emotionally regress all the way back to where their issues started.  They need to shed their skin and rebuild thier identity.  In the end, the person that comes out of the tunnel will be VERY different than the person that went in.
This most likely will be someone you don't know anymore.  You may no longer be attracted to that person.  You will without a doubt have a difficult  time trusting her again, let alone respecting her.  This is why just moving on is such good advice. 

I used to consider it lke rolling the dice.  If you get double sixes, she will come out fine and there is hope for a complete reconciliation.  Now I tend to see it like pulling an Ace of Hearts out of a deck of cards.  One in fifty-two?   The point is that you should not live your life from this point on hoping the Ace of Heart turns up.  We are talking about a future life of growth and happiness for you.  The odds say ---  Move on.  

If you do anything at all toward reconciliation, my advice would be to.... be honest and upfront in all your actions and dealings with her.  Be a man of integrity and become the man that she would find desireable some day in the future.  This means find and achieve the goals that make you a better man.  Health? Career?  Organization?   I am sure that your W has told you areas you need to improve.  She might be right in some of these criticisms.  You should accept this advice and improve yourself.  BUT, this is not to impress her, or win her back!  This is because it makes sense.  
Women are attracted to men who succeed and are self-confident.  So get to it.  You may find (some day) you attract a far better life partner.

Hang Tough!

fred1,

I am just speculating, because each situation is different at the details level, but similar as an overall flow and pattern.  Some women go quickly through stages and then get stuck for years (yes years) in one stage.  Then some others will regress back to previous stages over and over.  A lot has to do with the deeper issue that your W is dealing with.

In my case, the OM was not better looking or more romantic etc.  (these were her words). However, he was loaded and had the ability to provide financial security.

This in itself is not unreasonable.  Nearly all women need to feel that their H will provide emotional and physical/financial security.  It plays into her decision to marry in the first place.  In my case however, my ExW's father had cheated on her mom at age 13 and divorced shortly thereafter.  This pushed her mom into a emotional and financial catastrophe.  My Ex was then forced to grow up early and raise her baby sister.  She lost her teen years and her respect for both parents.  She also learned not to trust men.
Fast forward....... she got a married out of college at 22 and was cheating on him within a year (Yes with me).
She got pregnant by me and we married.  She had an affair about 5-6 years into the marriage and then ended it without my knowing about it.  She admitted to it years later when she could no longer hide the impact it had on her and our marriage.
Fast forward...... At the time the seeds of the MLC were growing,  I had just finished my MBA and insted of getting the great job that she was hoping for, I asked her for the opportunity to pursuit my dream career with a close friend that was an all or nothing business venture.  It failed and I went into a state of depression.  I still had a job, but it barely paid the bills.  She decided to get a part-time job in addition to her day-care job.  I continued to wollow in depression.
At this point she had lost all respect and confidence in me to provide for her.  She felt trapped.  As a result she ended up finding an older wealthier guy who could replace both her failed father and H.  Two and a half years later she decided OM was not the one after all and within weeks, moved on to another guy.

The question is what hole does she think she needs to fill.  Some go young to prove they are young or are desireable to young studs.  Others seek confidence or the wild life.  I guess the point is that it does not always have to be the same type of guy. 
You mentioned that it was an ex-fiance.  Perhaps she has regressed back in time to the point where she wishes she could have taken a different path.  It is not about him as much as what he symbolizes.  She wants a "do over".  Of course there is no such thing, but that requires a thinking logical mind.  She lives in a wold of emotions, feelings and fantasy. 
The ex-fiance comes with plenty of his own baggage.  However, as in all relationships, infatuation clouds the mind.  Couples see the passion in their new relationship as a sign it was meant to be.  They call it "true love".  It takes a while before the prince shows he is nothing but a frog.  She will most likely never admit he has warts.  
The best advice is to detatch and learn as much as possible.  Also protect yourself legally and protect your kids.

OH,
I think there is little that is disagreed upon.  I have read so many of your comments, that I know you come from a place of knowledge, experience and compassion. 

I like your first point. 

 "I do not believe it to be too harsh or two soon to try and wake someone up by changing their focus.........................away from his pain and on to LEARNING and growing.

My only point was that I don't see how chasing someone from this great resource is helping someone learn and grow.  Perhaps I was thinking that it might have been a good idea tell Paulfff that his marriage is suffering a massive heart attack and needed immediate surgery rather than just strapping him to a bed and slicing him open.

I completely agree that most of us needed and still need a solid slap up side the head to wake us up.  Paulfff was still fighting denial and hoping to find quick and simple answers.  Wasting time on this foolishness in the beginning is costly.  But, he deserve the opportunity to digest at least some of the wave of info that is now crashing in on him.  Insted he went into defense mode and heard nothing.

Perhaps I am wrong, but I hate to see anyone run away from the help that this site has to offer.  I would be nowhere without it.

Again, I repeat that I do not diagree with anything as to the advice given, but communication is about ensuring the receiver accurately comprehends the message.  That may not have been achieved.

eeyore,

I only write to tell you to follow the advice that you are being given here.  My situation started somewhere late in 2006, but I didn't get the bomb drop until Oct. 2007.  For the first 6-9 months, I did almost everything wrong.  I am still paying for that mistake.
Consider these next few months as the first moves in a chess match.  (or pick some other sports anaology).  You need to be paying attention to every move she makes and considering carefully each move you make in return.  Better yet, be proactive and take the initiate so that you are not playing on her terms.  Winning a chess match is hard enough without losing all your strongest pieces before you know whats happening.  Learn as much as possible so that nothing she does will surprise you.  Trust me on this, you have no idea how much more crazy it will get as she gets desperate and starts changing personalities at a whim. 

This is not a game, so the metaphore may be out of place, but your situation requires a plan, a commitment and and an acceptance that your W is no longer your partner and friend.  She is you opponent at best and most likely your enemy.

Best of Luck and love and protect those kids!  They are yours and need you to be strong for them.

Shepherdess,

First I want to say thank you for your comments and advice.

Onholdaz,

I take issue with the way you commented in this thread.  The Bible does say something about the use of honey vs. vinegar. 
I was raised in a rediculously religious family.  I know my Bible to a point of fighting off the tendancy to feel like a pharisee.
That being said. I have no serious disagreement with what you wrote.  But as we all know that each visitor here is at a different point in their journey, you could have saved your words for a later time.  It seemed that quoting the Bible in a severly judgmental way and then saying, "Oh, sorry, I didn't know ....." is wrong.  God gave us two ears and one mouth.  We need to use them in that proportion. 
I think  Paulfunfunfun, already knows that his past actions were wrong.  I do believe that God will allow your past mistakes to come back and reap what was sown.  Perhaps a better way to say it is that God will not always protect his children from the tital wave of pain that comes from the earthquake they caused days or decades earlier.
I did not sense love or charity in some of the posts I read.  

Paulfff,
If you have not left yet, I do think there are many points to learn from here.  I have not had anybody rip me as they did you.  I learned far more by reading the back and forth between others.  I saw myself in so many stories and I read the advice that others gave.  I also know now that I needed that advice a long time ago and receiving it gently would have made it seem less important.  (examples:  I moved out of my house to make her happy------WRONG MOVE ,  I took all the blame and admitted every fault I could think of and took the blame for all of hers mistakes as well -------WRONG MOVE,  I did not set boundries or limits ------WRONG AGAIN!)  I realize now that this is all water under the bridge when it comes to saving a marriage.  But my eleven year old daughter cried in my arms for ten minutes last night because she didn't like mom having her boyfriend over at the house.  I do still struggle with wondering if I made the wrong steps that could have protected my children better.
This site is amazing.  It is for people living in a nightmare of someone elses creation.  It is for sinners.  Good luck to you.  You have friends here.  My Ex has "friends", but they are the kind that don't want to hurt her feelings.  They want to "be there" for her in her hour of need as a new single mom and all.  The truth is that they are enablers.  A TRUE friend will look you in the eye and tell you when you are wrong.  They will keep the door of friendship open, but not support foolish and damaging behavior.  I would like to think there are many TRUE friends here.

Finally,

There are as many interpretations of the Bible as there are people who claim to live by it.  Since I claim no divine relvelation, I will just say that my opinion is simple that....   That being said, I need to address the comment that was left by  guest_guest above (I am guessing this is Paulfff)

"Were does it say a Christian has to read the Bible, or attend any sort of organised worship? A Christian follows Christ, Jesus Christ and what he stood for, his values and they are pretty simple to follow really.
I have had enough of this site and the moral stand that some people on here have put forward about my situation. I was not asking for all this crap. I will leave this site and never to return, I will get my life together with the help of God, who incidentaly does not judge like some of you on here. I will now make a comment from the Bible. Those without sin throw the first stone. I would have liked to say "it's been nice to know you."

The Bible is a tricky topic.  Either it is jsut a nice collection of thousands of random thoughts and myths, or it is the inspired WORD of God.  If it is the former, then it is on par with many other fine religions.  It gives some nice advice.
However, Christ claims to be the "Word" and the way to eternal life.  That being said, reading the WORD is knowing Christ.  His bride is the Church.  If you are His follower you need to be a part of that church (marriage).  I cringe at this because I know this rubs many people the wrong way.  I constantly must remind myself that dispite the nice clothes and best behavior on Sunday mornings, the church is completely populated with sinners.  (As it should be) Being a Christian is more than the Golden Rule.  Other religions have that.  Christianity also includes the Great Commision and the Second Advent.  If these are unfamiliar terms, then question yourself.

Christ (God) hates pain and suffering.  My favorite verse in the Bible is the final verse of the book of John.   "And I suppose that if all the other things Jesus did were written down, the whole world could not contain the books." Jn 21:25 NLT
With all the healing and loving Jesus did that we know of, it only scratches the surface of what he really did.  We only get to read a "sample".  That being said, we also see that he got angry when he saw sin and wrong being done (Lk 19:45)  Christians (like their leader) need to call sin what it is and not be shy about it.  I have such a long history of sin that I am sure I could fill many books as well.  I don't beleive the fact that I cleaned up my act somehow protects me from the consequenses of the past.  But I know that I have (been given) the strenght to make it through this dark time.

Whew!  That was more than I meant to say.

I have been reading posts all night.  It keeps my mind busy.  I see so much pain and compassion at the same time in all that I am reading.  There is such a cry for healing.  I want to say a personal thanks to everyone that posts in threads.  Shepherdess, you are a God send.  BasilDuke, your words are so familiar to me I can taste them.
I am reminded often as I read that I made so many mistakes.  But they can not be undone, and in reality they were not the cause.  So I detatch and take control of my own life (try to anyway).  There is truely a peace of mind that comes when you take back control of your own life.

God bless you all and I pray for us all and our mlc spouses.