The same old story, I will never change or love you again.
Hi guys and gals
I have read a lot of things on this site and can relate to them all and I would like to tell you my story, long but very, very sad.
I was married but it was a terrible marriage, married too young, and fell apart. I went working on a cruise ship and had a lot of affairs and split from my wife.
I then met the woman I am with now, it was love at first sight, we fell head over heels at the first meeting and being on a ship it made it so much more romantic. I was warned that she had been sleeping around with several officers on the ship, but love is blind as they say.
We both fell madly in love, we had great sex, she said the best sex she had ever had. We left the ship and settled ashore. She bought an apartment and I moved in with her and my first wife divorced me. I had two children, both grown up and they accepted my new love unconditionally.
I hesitate to say that there was a 15 year difference. She was 25 and I was 40, whilst I was worried a little about the age difference she said she was not, she begged me never to leave her. We stayed together for five years before we got married and it was a wonderful, happy five years, we were without doubt soul mates.
We had wonderful holidays, wonderful friends, a great house, wonderful family. Her parents said I was the perfect partner. Then after being married for four years we had our son, it was magic, we were so happy. I even have a video of her saying she had everything she wanted, she was so happy and so in love.
She then went working in her fathers business and I took care of things in the home more than her, letting her build up the business and bring it into the 20th century. She did very, very well.
We were so happy, everyone said we were the perfect couple. Our sex life was still good but it had gone from the early days to a regular twice a week affair. I worked away a lot with business, going abroad on a regular basis.
Then after being married for 17 years I went away on a business trip and broke my foot, when I returned I noticed that she was not the same, for some reason I asked if she had missed me her answer stunned me. "I have had not time to miss you"
I seem to have a psychic streak and could sense something was wrong, what it was I was not sure of and for some reason I checked her cell phone. I have NEVER done this before and then I found a text message from a friend of mine.
This is it word for word, it is engraved on my heart for all time. "I wish I was lying beside you, running my fingers through your hair and caressing your breasts."
I woke my wife up and asked her what it was, and could she explain it to me. Her reaction was one of complete nonchalance, she said it was a joke, it meant nothing. Now I know this guy and he is a womaniser and I believe for him to write a text like that he must have had some encouragement.
She swore it would never happen again but then gave me the speech. "I love you but I'm not in love with you." She went on to say she wanted fun, wanted to do everything on her own, wanted to go away with her girlfriends, go on holiday, answer to no one. She said I was a control freak.
I swear I have never been jealous of my wife before and have never been a control freak. If that was the case how come she had been with me for all this time and said nothing.
Then she said she would remove his number from her cell phone. I tried to make things work, but kept on discovering little things, found his number under a false name on her cell phone, then found she had lent him a large sum of money, found letters she had written to him and never sent, found pictures of him hidden on our computer, phone and her camera.
She became distant and complained that I was stalking her, looking through her things spying on her. She refused any physical contact, no touching, no kissing, nothing at all.
When I discovered the text message it destroyed 21 years of trust in a heartbeat. She then said she could not stand to be with me, could not be in the same room as me and wanted a divorce.
We have a son aged 15 who stays out of the whole thing.
I then discovered that when she was on a business trip to Switzerland she had spent the night with a man 15 years younger than herself.
She says that there is nothing in her heart for me, she says she will NEVER change, she has completely re-written our history. She has no happy memories just bad ones, which really fuel her hatred of me. She writes little notes down saying things like, controlling, cruel, hateful, lier, decietful all things that fuel her negative memory. She has NO memory of our life together before this MLC. She laughs at our wedding photographs, she constantly looks at pictures of her past lovers, saying she wants to get in touch with them again.
I love her with all my heart, no matter what, through sickness and in health, better or worse. But her hatred of me is paramount to her negative memory.
She even had me arrested by making up a phoney assault charge, which was dropped. She served me with divorce papers but I refused to sign them.
During this time she has lost about 3 stone, goes to the gym about six times a week, dresses provocatively, showing a lot of cleavage, even though it is inappropriate for her job. She has an incredible figure and is a very attractive woman. I have seen the way other men look at her, she flirts with every man she sees, and does not worry if I see it or not, if she does that when I am around what would she do if I was not around?
After all this she is adamant that she does not have another man, nor does she have anyone waiting in the cupboard to come out. I believe her and all her friends say she has not got another man.
We are both living at the marital home and I have moved into the spare room, despite protesting. She said she would call the police and say I assaulted her again, so I had no choice.
Last week we went to a 25th wedding party together, when she heard that I was going she became very upset but could not do anything as these friends were mine rather than hers.
When we got there she immediately left me and sat down next to our friends 24 year old daughter who incidentaly is a lesbian. She had been to our house for dinner with her lover one evening before and they were touching each other that sort of thing and my wife could not take her eyes off them.
I noticed that this girl was looking at my wife the way I would look at her and they were sitting very close, my wife was asking about the girls lover, and if she had ever been with a man. I thought it was inappropriate conversation. This went on most of the evening they were taking every opportunity to be close to each other. I heard this girl ask my wife to come see her new apartment which is some way away and would warrant a night away. She has been to visit her before. I eventually confronted my wife and asked what was going on asking if she had noticed the way this girl was looking at her.
She gave me the silent treatment, never said a word, and to be honest from that day to this it was never mentioned.
I then sent my wife an email saying I had read about women who discover their true sexuality late in life and realise that they are a lesbian and was this the case? I said if that was the case I could understand and would grant her the divorce and I would be her best friend. Nobody can pick their sexuality and if my wife was a lesbian I would accept it.
She wrote back and said she was not a lesbian, said that men would never understand the things women say to each other. But one thing is clear to me, my wife and I have not had sex since this all began two years ago and she has written down in her diary that "sex was a problem"
What does this mean? Is it because she is a lesbian and does not want me to know, is she a bi-sexual. I do know what I saw with my own eyes, the way they looked at each other.
I know my marriage is over and I do know that this mid life crisis is to blame, how she can just obliterate 23 years of being together in a heartbeat.
Anyone got any ideas? I still believe that one day she will realise and come to her senses but am I a fool to waste my life waiting for her?? Help please.
good morning - without being judgmental or critical - I am asking - did your W show you her diary? A diary, journal - is the most private place an individual has - especially an individual in turmoil. Women in MLC have a different perspective on things than all of those around them - they are warped in their thinking. But one of the themes that play in our heads is - lack of autonomy, independence, privacy. If she were to find out that you viewed her diary without her consent - you will have added a tremendous amount of fuel.
Now, I do understand that those in a relationship with a MLC partner - often need - to find out information - they need to know what is going on - because their partners are not being truthful. Tracking cell phone records, computer use - etc. But those who read their partners' diaries/journals - to me - is an assault on the basic autonomy of another human being. During my darkest times - my journal became a place to put down all the garbage, all the nastiness in my soul - my deepest despair - my torment. It became my major tool for healing - I filled five journals in two years. If I thought that my partner would read those words - it would break my heart.
I do not want to get into the uses of diaries - people use them for different reasons. However, they are extremely personal and should not be read by others. Use whatever other means you feel you need to determine what your W is up to - but her diaries can actually help her and she will not use them if she finds that they are not private.
just some thoughts - hope you are able to find help on this site.
PEACE
gI do not want to get into the uses of diaries - people use them for different reasons. However, they are extremely personal and should not be read by others. Use whatever other means you feel you need to determine what your W is up to - but her diaries can actually help her and she will not use them if she finds that they are not private.
-sbreeze1
sbreeze1: I totally agree with you here about diaries and journals...they are so important to healing.
I have used journaling to grieve my father's passing, cry out for peace for my family...rage on about the problems that were going on within my marriage and my family before the tornado of MLC hit.
My husband DID read all of my journals and through reading the journals he saw the pain, hurt and struggle I was going through before the storm hit our family. He realized that I had been crying out for years and he had not been listening. By reading these journals, much of the resentment and bitterness he was building up against me melted away because in the time of reading these entries he realized that he had had a role in fueling my MLC....not all of it...but he did take responsibility for the portions that had to do with being left alone a lot with the kids, not re-assimilating in to the family when he was home and making me feel like I was nothing and couldn't make it through life without him. His reading these journals opened his eyes and he finally saw my pain.
BUT...because he did go through everything all the time...I didn't easily go to journaling when I was grieving during my No Contact period and in a way, I think it was a good thing because it would have kept the addiction alive by writing about it. Writing about it would have enabled it...it was better to talk it through or just not talk about it at all. I do believe that having a journal is a private thing...but for many women who have kept secrets, lied and deceived their families...even this can not be sacred until the offending person has earned trust and respect back again. Privacy is not necessarily a right...or automatic...it is earned by being trustworthy. These women have lost this privilege and must earn it back, especially if they want to come home.
So, I agree with your opinion about journals being private and sacred...not all should read them...yet, in most cases with women who are betraying their families and destroying them...this right needs to go away...all things must become open for viewing for a certain period of time, especially if the couple wants to get back together....a No Secrets, No Lies, No betrayals...Open EVERYTHING...journals, cellphones, e-mail, social network memberships and games EVERYTHING...Trust must be earned back.
In your journey you didn't betray your husband with an affair...for you this would not apply.
Shepherdess
You've been putting up with this woman's crap for two years???!!!! Holy crap, man. Have you talked to a lawyer? If not, you need to do that immediately. As in today. Your wife isn't your wife; she's a very muddy pair of boots to your doormat. How long are you going to lay there and let her scrape mud on you? The longer you lay there like an impotent rag, the stronger she becomes - and less respect she'll have for you. Believe me: this case calls for strength - not passivity. This woman is a monster who feeds on your refusal to stand up to her. What kind of signals are you sending to your 15-year-old son? That it's appropriate for a woman to emotionally torture a man, to lie about him, cheat on him and have him arrested on specious charges? You need to stand up and start punching back, before this beast turns you into a dime-sized grease stain on the living room carpet. For the love of God, man, grow a set!
Basil Duke
Moderator
Maybe one day she will want to put this behind her and come back and say sorry, who knows. I do know I won't be waiting, I can promise that. I have took enough shit from this woman but care is needed in handling the situation.
And As for Basil Duke, I have a set of balls believe me but I have a ton of money invested in my home etc and after what she did with the cops she is capable of anything. I trully believe she is not in control of her senses
-guest_paulfunfunfun
Was the part about the cops in your first post? I think I missed that one. I got everything else including your suspicion of her dabbling in bi-sexuality/lesbianism....but no mention of her calling the police on you. Maybe you need to tell us this part of the story...why would she call the police?
Is there any children involved in this situation...or at least kids that are home?
Her history prior to your marriage sort harkens to what may be coming down the road....your W was sort of promiscuous before your relationship started....there is always a reason for this sort of behavior and it can be psychological. Has she ever gone to a therapist?
I am going to be very honest with you Paulfff.....unless your wife gets her happy little butt into a therapist to figure out why she has a need for promiscuity and having all sorts of sexual relationships out side of her marriage...I wouldn't waste your time sitting around waiting for her AHA- Moment. There could be so many thing going on with her including the fact that she may have been repressing her homosexual leaning...or she just likes living her sexual life varied and dangerous...which she tended to do even before you dated.
If you want to try to figure her out...realize that you can't fix her even if you do....any suggestion or theory will be met with denial and refusal to get the help that she needs...Your efforts will be in vain...BUT...if you just want to know or figure things out or put your finger on a possible explanation...I could give you some theories to kick around...but they are not diagnosis or something to act on as all of my suggestions are theories and I highly encourage everyone to get the confirmation or answers from the professionals. (Please see disclaimer)
SO, if she is dangerous...if she is playing this divorce thing dirty...I would get a really good lawyer and try to get out of the relationship...hopefully with your shirt and not in jail on a trumped up charge....stop holding out hope that the "old" wife is going to return...she has been gone for two years...she is dead....even if she did come back to you...you would be starting all over again with a different woman...she is doing all of this because she is resisting the changes in her life and she is doing it by living on the edge and going back to what she used to know...she is going back to the point where her maturity stopped and where the problems start or live.
We are here when you need...
Shepherdess
I thought I may have left the cops thing out, but no it is there, go back and read. Also a reference to my son is there also. Thanks for the advice adn I am inclined to agree with you, she want's to go back to that time before she had all the responsibilities. Now our son is pretty much getting by as an individual she sees no need to be the "mother" any longer, or at least not the mother she used to be. She is I must mention a really great mother to our son.
She did mention to me some time ago that she wants "fun" also she said she was wondering what happened to a lot of her old boyfriends. She also dug out a lot of photos from her time on the ship before she met me. Some of these pictures are showing her kissing, or hugging previous "boyfriends" She dotes on these pictures, but I made up an album of pictures of us in happier times, put it together with some captions, it should have made her cry, but her reaction was?? She did not give it a second glance, said it meant NOTHING to her, so I think that was the answer I was looking for.
Thanks anyway
Paul
What happened?
Galatians 6:7-8 (NIV)
7Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction;
How much of what you did when you were 40 is exactly what your W is doing right now? I'd bet your exW's view back then would be very similar to yours today..............................I wonder how much you considered your exW's feelings while you were sexing around on cruises? Doesn't it really suck to put on those shoes full of crap that you handed your exW to wear sooo many years ago?
You should probably go work on cruises again and see if maybe you can find a new young honey to hook up with for 15 - 20 years or so.................one or two more should about last you.
Or maybe you should find a good councilor and get some therapy for you also...........as for your W, well you never looked back at your 1st M did you? What do you think the chances are that she will? - I wouldn't take a bet in Vegas on her coming back any time soon.......................
But just my $.02.
WoW!!! I missed the first marriage detail, OnHoldAZ. I didn't know what you were talking about until I went back and reread the beginning of the post..
I do believe that many people in their young lives...live on the edge making mistakes and then grow in to mature adults that realize that their younger behavior was wrong. (It can be a Prodigal experience) But then there are some who continue to reap what they sow.
Interesting response....
Shepherdess
.
Shepherdess,
can you expound on this please?
"...stop holding out hope that the "old" wife is going to return...she has been gone for two years...she is dead....even if she did come back to you...you would be starting all over again with a different woman...she is doing all of this because she is resisting the changes in her life and she is doing it by living on the edge and going back to what she used to know...she is going back to the point where her maturity stopped and where the problems start or live."
I can appreciate the verbal lashing that PaulFFF received because of the way he treated his first wife many years ago. I played a major part in my ExW's first divorce. I was one of the other men. At the time, I had a horrible time with the guilt of her being married but at age twenty three, I was still too selfish and arrogant. When we were together, she would lay it on thick that he was at fault and wouldn't change. I believed her. (the same things she says about me today) Still I didn't want to be the reason for their divorce. I wanted it to fall apart on its own (my trying to avoid guilt). So, I broke up with her three seperate times for months and eventually she would just show up on my doorstep crying (an unfair advantage women have). I even talked on the phone and met with her Ex to tell him what she was tell me was wrong. Then I got her pregnant.... Five kids and 20 years later....MLC.
The point is that she is exactly the same person she was twenty years ago. She is now 42 and this began just before she turned 39.
I look back and I see that I was an idiot for not getting out and living by the moral standard I was raised with. But I can't fix the past. We had 16 years of a good marriage and then these last two have been hell. The D was made final today at 2:15pm.
The reason I am curious about the above quote is that my MLCer said she was date raped when she was 13, and then her dad fooled around on her mom at age 13-14 and they divorced. She had to help raise her baby sister while her mom crashed. She has had issues with men and trust and selfworth ever since I've known her.
I read somewhere that there are cycles in our lives that occur every 7-10 years. If issues are not resolved, they pile up until MLC blows everything up.
I consider her rape and loss of father as a trumatic event at age 13. Then I see that 8 years later she got married out of college at age 21. She claims that she didn't really love him, but loved the idea of getting married.....????? She wasn't married a full year when she began cheating. Regretably, I was her main partner. We married and not even six years into the marriage, exactly eight years from the demise of her first marriage and 16 years from the rape/parents divorce, she had a "one night stand". She kept this a secret in word, but failed to realize that I noticed her behaving differently. It took almost three years of questions and probing before she admitted her infidelity. It took me at least another two years to get over the pain and I can't say that I fully did, because we didn't seek help. We tried to "forgive and forget" method.
Finally, another eight years later, she went into MLC. The eight year number is a rough number, but consistant. It appears that this was a train that is scheduled to wreck every eight years.
I am one of the guys that first reacted exactly wrong to MLC and then I went into research mode for about a year. I have learned a lot. Sometimes it's good to know things and sometimes its painful. I see so many of the triggers to MLC. My oldest duagther turned 14 and became "sexually aware" when the MLC started. There was competition in the house for most desireable. Also, my youngest went into pre-school at the same time.... no longer were there babies or todlers in the house. It all seems so obvious and predicable in hindsight.
Am I off base in this analysis?
Thanks !
You are so RIGHT ON...neverimagined!! Your wife is stuck at 13-14 years old...trying to find a reason for the rape and deal with the fact that her Dad left....add on to it that she probably is holding in a ton of resentment toward her mother because SHE had to grow-up quickly and raise her sister...be an adult way before she had to. Her teenage years were stolen from her. It is true that if issues are left unresolved they will come back around every 7-10 years...each time festering a bit more. Getting married young or marrying because you like the idea of it...make you a "Good Girl"...something that was stolen from her when she was raped. Raped victims believe that they had something to do with the rape...like they caused it...or lured the person in some way, which makes them a "Bad Girl". Cheating is what "Bad Girls" do...Her father cheated...he ended up being a "Bad Father". Your wife is allowing her unresolved issues AND the legacy of her parent's marriage repeat it self within her own marriage. Though she may have wanted to be more like her mother...she ended being trained well by her father...she is a cheater's daughter..who is convinced she is "Bad Girl" because she went on a date with an idiot who took advantage of her....NONE OF THIS IS HER FAULT...but SHE is carrying ALL the burden. The reason why your W is in MLC is rooted in these two events...NOTHING will change until she resolves these two issues. ONLY SHE CAN MAKE THIS RIGHT FOR HER! YOU CAN'T FIX IT!
I am sorry that it has come to this for you and your children. Now that YOU know what has caused this whole thing to happen...the only thing you can do is take care of YOU and those children. DO NOT feel guilty because you were the OW before you married...ultimately, you had no idea....though dating a married woman and getting her pregnant isn't the noblest thing to do...but that is beside the point now that there has been time and five children brought in to this world because of this union. The focus now is to make sure that YOUR children don't repeat your wife and your marriage legacy...get them ALL in to family or individual therapy. they need to know that they are loved deeply and valuable to both of you despite the problems you are having at this time.
DETACH from your wife situation now that you know and understand what has gotten to this place...NOW, it is time to take care of those that are living in the present and need you most...YOUR CHILDREN. Your wife will do what she will do...you are divorced....she has chosen not to have you help her through this...she has chosen to go it alone or in her way.
Did I confirm your analysis...answer your question?
Shepherdess
You know nothing of my first marriage, nothing at all and your holier than thou attitude is what is wrong with the world today. Bible quoting is the losers way out, the person who can't speak for themselves. Don't know how to deal with a situation? Quote the bible.
My first marriage was a sham, the love was not there at the beginning it was lust and not love. As for things coming back to haunt me, well you may want to know that I am a committed Christian, have been so for many years, confessed my sins and asked for forgiveness. You my friend are a freak, you are not a Christian not in a million years. Christ said in case you have forgotten. Those without sin cast the first stone.
I know what is in my heart and I KNOW I treated my wife with all the love and respect anyone could give another human being. So you know what you can do with your old testiment crap. I thought this forum was for people to help each other, lean on each other?
Okay, let's step back and take a breath. This forum is indeed a resource for folks in the middle of hell on earth. I guess Onholdz - like me, to be honest - was taken aback by the seeming nonchalance with which you described the history of your first marriage - and your numerous affairs.
I'm not judging you. I'd be the last person on earth to do so. I was a rotten, soul-less b*****d in my marriage's early years, and I've often thought I'm getting exactly what I deserve. But I changed dramatically, and did my very best to do "right" by my (now ex) wife. Regardless of my catastrophic early failures as a husband, my past sins didn't give my ex an imprimatur to blow up my family. She doesn't get a 'pass." And neither does your wife.
Basil Duke
paulfunfunfun:
Just because ONE person called you on the carpet with scripture you are going to pick up your toys and leave? Please don't.
I don't believe that bible quoting is a losers way out...I use bible quotes all the time here at the forum...they are exact quotes OR I put the scripture in my own words working them in to the content and context ...many folks don't even know that I am quoting scripture.
IMHO, those who get upset by having scripture quoted at them take the defense because something within the scripture has hit a sore spot or it is a TRUTH that they are not ready to see or admit.
Everyone here at this forum are sinners for some reason or another....we are ALL forgiven in the eyes of God as long as we have set aside our sinning ways and have sinned no more. No where in your first post did you tell us about you being a Christian OR that you changed or a rebirth in Christ played a role in your marriage or life behavior. You told a story of true Prodigal times for both you and your wife. I totally missed the fact that you had been married before.
No matter what your story...we all have them from when were young, stupid...learning how to be human beings in this thing called life...they are true Prodigal Experiences....I am happy to know that you returned to the Father....BUT...you can not blame OnHoldAZ for not knowing this element of your story...NO WHERE in your story did you mention it AND the whole story vacant of this element would illicit a response from Christian that is trying to make an unbeliever see how they see it.....'Hey man...look at your story...you Reap what you sow...you screwed around on your first wife...mistake or not and it will come back to bite you on the butt...Karma's a b*tch!!" BUT OH decided to use scripture instead....either way, it would piss you off because though you have asked for forgiveness and it has been given...You still have guilt...YOU haven't forgiven YOU...this is why the scripture quoting upsets you. It upsets me when people quote at me and I know that it has hit the nail on the head of my guilt or an unresolved issue that I still have.
It is God's way of telling us we need to work on that issue when HIS word is spoken and it hurts us, makes us angry or defensive. Don't take offense Paulfunfunfun....take it as a message from God...telling you that He has forgiven you for your past BUT YOU have to forgive you also. That is all.
Please stay...we are here to encourage and support...but we are also here to tell tell you the truth when it needs to be said...if you were here to discuss with a bunch of "Yes- people" then maybe this forum is not for you...but if you want knowledge, understanding ...the TRUTH told to you EVEN when it will hurt...then you are in the right place!! I guarantee that if God wants to give you wake up call OR you need a smack up the side of the head...He will give it in some way or another, whether it be here or through another messenger or event.
I pray that you stay...
Shepherdess
I am a committed Christian, have been so for many years,
So you know what you can do with your old testiment crap.
-paulfunfunfun
Most Christians at least own a Bible and most would know that Galatians is in the new testament, not the old testament (my comment is not a judgment, as most non-Christians fall back on when ever they hear anything they don't like, but reflecting what you said you did and to ASK questions.............which you are hiding from)........................now there are a lot of cults that teach a little bit of truth with a lot of lies that say they are Christian groups, but that's just a guess................assuming you even attend any kind of worship service - of which i have no idea - but if you do, next time ask for a Bible.
Do I find it Ironic that what you did has come back to haunt you? Absolutely. Thou shalt not find irony in life is not actually one of the 10 commandments.
But now the exercise in REALITY for you. MLC is here for BOTH to grow from - LEARN from the pain you caused by the pain you are experiencing. Understand that life IS NOT "fair" and no place are we promised in the Bible that life will be a bowl of peaches and cream (trust me I've actually read the Bible - think book, usually says something like "Holy Bible" on the cover..............keep looking, it's probably some place in your house covered in dust................thou shalt not use sarcasms isn't one of the 10 commandments either :-).
You also might want to look at how quickly YOU returned to your 1st marriage before you spend years waiting for your current W to return (there's your "help") - because like you, she may not (I'm full of help today)....................my exW went over the wall in 2000/2001 (2001 I discovered the affair but her mother passed in 2000 out of the blue which probably set things in full motion) - she's still not some one I could spend time with in a relationship (D15 still visits once a month - exW lives 2+ hours away).
I did not learn much from exW's MLC at the time, but when my W went over the wall and I actually lived in the house with her the entire time (no affair or she would not still be my W) and got to watch the process unfold...............I learned, I grew.
Now assuming you were just an immoral 40 year-old who did like we all do (except most of us don't) and started screwing everything with a skirt on (sorry if you don't like the paraphrase) even though you were married - prior to hooking up with a person who you had everything in common with (who listens to the same music you grew up with - but it is a classic to her).............who was your "Soul mate" (i.e. read - used buy most MLC'ers phrase) who saved you from a horrible marriage (i.e. read - re-writing history by MLC'ers).......................gee I'm guessing this is the same story your W is now telling.....................even if you won't accept that you were in crisis, cuse from what you wrote - if it looks like a duck and it walks like a duck - it's a duck.
You can wake up and learn or pull the "I don't like the mirror - I'm gonna go some place else" - however, it's not going to change your past or your current situation one bit.
You can wake up - learn, grow.................or run away and cry in a coroner because you are being picked on, it's your choice.
I have had enough of this site and the moral stand that some people on here have put forward about my situation. I was not asking for all this crap. I will leave this site and never to return, I will get my life together with the help of God, who incidentaly does not judge like some of you on here. I will now make a comment from the Bible. Those without sin throw the first stone. I would have liked to say "it's been nice to know you."
I am sorry you are leaving Paulfff... because I do believe God is calling you to maybe up your game with your faith...maybe by starting to read the Bible more...joining a community of worship...leaning on Him more with an increased knowledge and understanding.
I was not attacking you and you are lumping everyone together...How many members actually responded to your post? Did everyone who responded "Judge" you? the answer is "No"...but the person who did call attention to your past and quote scripture this is the person you are judging the whole membership by. Many people would view what this man did as a challenge...he challenged your faith....he didn't judge you. But if you believe we are casting stones at you...I am sorry...but, I am not...I dropped the stones I have held LONG ago, when I was on the receiving end. SO...go ahead and leave...but no one here is casting stones at you. We are ALL sinners in one way or another.
Shepherdess
Shepherdess,
First I want to say thank you for your comments and advice.
Onholdaz,
I take issue with the way you commented in this thread. The Bible does say something about the use of honey vs. vinegar.
I was raised in a rediculously religious family. I know my Bible to a point of fighting off the tendancy to feel like a pharisee.
That being said. I have no serious disagreement with what you wrote. But as we all know that each visitor here is at a different point in their journey, you could have saved your words for a later time. It seemed that quoting the Bible in a severly judgmental way and then saying, "Oh, sorry, I didn't know ....." is wrong. God gave us two ears and one mouth. We need to use them in that proportion.
I think Paulfunfunfun, already knows that his past actions were wrong. I do believe that God will allow your past mistakes to come back and reap what was sown. Perhaps a better way to say it is that God will not always protect his children from the tital wave of pain that comes from the earthquake they caused days or decades earlier.
I did not sense love or charity in some of the posts I read.
Paulfff,
If you have not left yet, I do think there are many points to learn from here. I have not had anybody rip me as they did you. I learned far more by reading the back and forth between others. I saw myself in so many stories and I read the advice that others gave. I also know now that I needed that advice a long time ago and receiving it gently would have made it seem less important. (examples: I moved out of my house to make her happy------WRONG MOVE , I took all the blame and admitted every fault I could think of and took the blame for all of hers mistakes as well -------WRONG MOVE, I did not set boundries or limits ------WRONG AGAIN!) I realize now that this is all water under the bridge when it comes to saving a marriage. But my eleven year old daughter cried in my arms for ten minutes last night because she didn't like mom having her boyfriend over at the house. I do still struggle with wondering if I made the wrong steps that could have protected my children better.
This site is amazing. It is for people living in a nightmare of someone elses creation. It is for sinners. Good luck to you. You have friends here. My Ex has "friends", but they are the kind that don't want to hurt her feelings. They want to "be there" for her in her hour of need as a new single mom and all. The truth is that they are enablers. A TRUE friend will look you in the eye and tell you when you are wrong. They will keep the door of friendship open, but not support foolish and damaging behavior. I would like to think there are many TRUE friends here.
Finally,
There are as many interpretations of the Bible as there are people who claim to live by it. Since I claim no divine relvelation, I will just say that my opinion is simple that.... That being said, I need to address the comment that was left by guest_guest above (I am guessing this is Paulfff)
"Were does it say a Christian has to read the Bible, or attend any sort of organised worship? A Christian follows Christ, Jesus Christ and what he stood for, his values and they are pretty simple to follow really.
I have had enough of this site and the moral stand that some people on here have put forward about my situation. I was not asking for all this crap. I will leave this site and never to return, I will get my life together with the help of God, who incidentaly does not judge like some of you on here. I will now make a comment from the Bible. Those without sin throw the first stone. I would have liked to say "it's been nice to know you."
The Bible is a tricky topic. Either it is jsut a nice collection of thousands of random thoughts and myths, or it is the inspired WORD of God. If it is the former, then it is on par with many other fine religions. It gives some nice advice.
However, Christ claims to be the "Word" and the way to eternal life. That being said, reading the WORD is knowing Christ. His bride is the Church. If you are His follower you need to be a part of that church (marriage). I cringe at this because I know this rubs many people the wrong way. I constantly must remind myself that dispite the nice clothes and best behavior on Sunday mornings, the church is completely populated with sinners. (As it should be) Being a Christian is more than the Golden Rule. Other religions have that. Christianity also includes the Great Commision and the Second Advent. If these are unfamiliar terms, then question yourself.
Christ (God) hates pain and suffering. My favorite verse in the Bible is the final verse of the book of John. "And I suppose that if all the other things Jesus did were written down, the whole world could not contain the books." Jn 21:25 NLT
With all the healing and loving Jesus did that we know of, it only scratches the surface of what he really did. We only get to read a "sample". That being said, we also see that he got angry when he saw sin and wrong being done (Lk 19:45) Christians (like their leader) need to call sin what it is and not be shy about it. I have such a long history of sin that I am sure I could fill many books as well. I don't beleive the fact that I cleaned up my act somehow protects me from the consequenses of the past. But I know that I have (been given) the strenght to make it through this dark time.
Whew! That was more than I meant to say.
WoW! Thank you for saying it...I am blessed to have you here at the forum. I pray that Paulfff will return to read your words.
BUT I CHNAGED MY MIND>>>
I am not going to apologize for OH's response or how he responded...he has been at this as long if not longer than I have...he knows what to say and how to say it...
Thank you for your heartfelt and well-written and thought out response. God Bless!
Shepherdess
Actually Shep and NI - I do not believe it to be too harsh or two soon to try and wake someone up by changing their focus.........................away from his pain and on to LEARNING and growing. I do believe that we can cause a person damage by allowing/assisting them in wallow in their own depression and victim hood far too long. However my 1st point was not anything but reflecting his own story back to him...............is it harsh to say "yes the front of your car got smashed when you hit that pole"?
We can deny reality all day long – but it does not change reality.
So ask yourself - why did he over react if he had already accepted the reality of his own life?
NI I have been on the MLC boards since early 2006 and impacted by MLC since my exW's change from SAHM to Biker Babe over night - in 2001. IMO - you can play kid gloves with many people for many months and provide them no help at all..................that is your choice - but did I condemn or complain about any of the previous posts? Did I call pfff names or just point out what he had already posted..........
At no place have I claimed perfection - but attempted to point pfff in a direction that he may learn from, HIS OWN LIFE. What do we call it if we learn by from our own mistakes/actions? What do we call it if we cannot see our own mistakes and continue to repeat them, over and over and over?
Now I was a bit more forward once his silly claim was made...................because I have dealt with many who claim Christianity - who actually have placed themselves in the place of God - they don't need the Bible, they don't need rules to live by, they don't need knowledge - they are good enough to earn their own way into heaven - because they think they can...................they have made themselves God. If you know your Bible - you know what his fate will be...............and your silence will not change that.
Luke 9:25-26 (NKJV)
25 For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and is himself destroyed or lost? 26 For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words, of him the Son of Man will be ashamed when He comes in His own glory, and in His Father’s, and of the holy angels.
I was just pointing out his absurd points. You are free to ignore his words and keep on trying to console him if you choose..................but I don’t know of too many people who ever grew up by blaming others for what has happened in their lives – most grow up by taking responsibility for THEIR actions.
Locked Topic
It's been a while since this topic was active, if you'd like to get it going again, please post as a registered member
