The Rollercoaster ride gets bumpier after two years
I have been lurking here but have not posted until now. Brief history: I was married for 17 years to a woman who was a good wife and mother. We have 3 children in mid to late teens. We were both professors at the same university. We did everything together from going out regularly, working out, traveling around the world as a family. We had a comfortable life style and our children were bright and well adjusted. We had a lovely home and I supported her through her studies while she was having children. Two years ago, she started saying she was unhappy.
Among the things she said were 'I love you but I am not in love with you; It's not you, it is me; you are too nice; I don't deserve you, I am not marriage material; I like to touch different people's lives etc'. I could not believe it. I was devastated.
I started investigating and found out that as part of some voluntary work she was doing, she was visiting overseas prisoners about to be deported. One of the people she was visiting was an Iranian man, 10 years younger than her. He had had a heroine addiction and had served a two year jail term, hence the deportation order and his stay at a detention centre. When I first confronted her, she denied it completely. She swore on the bible (she is a devout Catholic!), I started to question my own sanity!
She got him lawyers and used every trick in the book to get him out. Ironically, I had unwittingly agreed for her to spend money from our saving to finance this. On her birthday, two years ago, she drove five hours to be with him and stayed with him over night. We were still living together at the time. I found out and confronted her. She denied until I gave her the evidence. She told me we were over and that it was not my business who she slept with.
The children witnessed our daily arguments for six months. She was relentless and cruel. I lost two and a half stones in six weeks due to not eating / sleeping. It was hell. She told me that I had her to thank for losing excessive weight!
Anyway, I went to the lawyer, applied for divorce, got 50/50 custody. Her dad bought her a house. She moved out. I stayed / still am in the matrimonial home, which has been on the market, but has not sold.
She stopped paying her contribution to the mortgage. She is refusing to pay me money I am owed. I am behind with mortgage payments and may be facing bankruptcy.
The children have told her categorically that they did not want that man to go to the house while they are there. She recently told them that he was moving in with them and that she was going to marry him and have a child with him. She told the children that if they did not like living with him, they could go and live with me permanently. She is 43. The OM is 33.
I do not know what to do. My anger has resurfaced and I feel tormented. I do have a new partner, but when my children said that they felt uncomfortable when she was in the house when they visit, I stopped bringing her over when they are here.
Any comments appreciated.
Nomad1
I believe that it is time to go back to the lawyer and get your fair share that was agreed upon during your divorce. If she is not living up to what was legally agreed upon...then it is up to the courts to make it happen.
Now, this is true in the USA, but I believe you are not writing from the States, so this may not be true in your country.
In any case, you must return to your Lawyer and find out what you can do about getting the payment for your matrimonial house and see if there is any way you can keep your children away from this man, WHO has a criminal record and previous drug problems. No matter where we are in the world, we as a world community need to change the outlook of our courts as it deals with families that are destructing. The court system around the world needs to place the Children's best interest at heart. If the court, in your case, knew the history of the person that your exWife was affiliated with, I am sure they would question whether or not the children should live with her or not. Please look in to whether or not the custody can be revisited in light of this new information and circumstances. (I am sure two years ago there was no plan for this man to move in to a house that Daddy paid for)
In the case of the home, if she can not continue helping you pay the mortgage, then she needs to buy you out of the mortgage...all of this should have been handled or prearranged at your divorce hearing. If she isn't paying then there has to be a way that she can be made to pay through wage garnishment or something.
DETACH and RELEASE from the ANGER that is boiling back up because of the stupidity of this situation and the craziness of the end of your marriage. I hate to say this...but the end of your marriage is what it is...something made of soap opera and movies...but it is your reality and you have control over the way the story ends. If you don't want your children around that man...then legally make it so. If she owes you money then legally get her to pay it. Do Not enable her behavior by continuing to let her control this situation or YOUR behavior of STILL being in shock over the fact that this is actually happening to you and your family.
Snap out of it!!! This isn't a dream...a Reality Show...You have put your guard down too soon...because she has been in control of this whole situation ALL along and she is STILL jerking your chain.! You haven't detached AND your children are not your number one priority...if they were you wouldn't even begin to think about having a relationship with anyone.
Get your priorities in order first...
It is WAY too soon for you to have "partner"...you haven't even gotten over your marriage ending....it is so unfair to bring another person in, when you haven't even healed from being betrayed by your wife. All this partner's role is ...she is a stand-in for your Wayward Wife...you will end up hurting her or she you. Five years is what experts say before entering into a serious relationship....two years to heal, two years to get comfortable in your single skin...one year to start looking and testing the waters....otherwise...all you can offer another person is a bruised and battered personality, who is only trying to replace what has been stolen from him.
Last comment: You may have been divorced two years ago...but you haven't moved forward an inch. If you want to move forward, then you need to do what should have done two years ago. Detach from the emotion and absurdity of how your marriage ended AND make your children your first priority....get rid of the relationship and focus in on healing yourself and healing your children....getting them on firm ground in a home that they feel safe and secure. They don't have that now.
My response is only to what you have told us...so if you have more info fine, do tell?...but don't beat up the messenger because on face value...you have a lot of changes and work to do FOR your kids...stop thinking about your crazy exWife, your own needs and desire to get back at her...that boat sailed a LONG time ago...your kids are stranded in a Life Boat and their parents are bringing in new partners and setting up new homes that these kids had no say over.
If you want off the roller coaster...then do what you need to do to get off...right now you aren't doing what needs to be done and your kids are suffering for it.
Shepherdess
On the subject of your children and new "partners": I couldn't agree more with Shepherdess. Right now, your children probably feel like there's no safe haven for them - no "comfort" place. At their mom's, they have the grim and nutty spectre of the Persian dope fiend, and at dad's, they're confronted with a woman with whom they're simply not comfortable.
You have to be the sane one here, because, clearly, your ex is wayyyyy out there. The MLC booster rockets have been fired and she's roaring right into the sun! She feels more loyalty to this Iranian scumbag than she does her own children. Well, buddy: that means you've got to step up and take another one for the team. Let them know beyond question that THEY are first and foremost in your world. If you're going to see someone socially, keep it to yourself. Don't bring the woman over to your place. It probably makes your children feel violated. Like I said, no matter where they go, one of their parents is trying to shove a new partner down their throats.
I'm not on board with the five-year plan that Shepherdess discussed, but I do agree that in your case, you shouldn't be dating, period. You're still emotionally hamstrung by your ex's spastic detonation of your old life. I stopped dating a few months ago because I realized that it wasn't healthy for me. Wasn't ready, and probably won't be for a long time. Not five years, but still, a long time.
Ditto on what Sheperdess urged about seeing your lawyer. Man, this is hardball and you're tossing whiffle balls up into a typhoon. Get with the program, and fight for you and your kids. You were all grossly wronged by your ex-wife, but that doesn't mean you have to lay there on the ground, in a ball. Get up and fight back.
Basil Duke
St. Louis, MO-Based Moderator and middle-aged dad of a teenaged son
My sons would love to live with me permanently (full custody) and I don't think that their mum would object to that, strangely enough. She is still in the la la land where unicorns poop rainbows! Anyway, that is her problem.
You are right, I have not detached. I thought I had, until I heard the news of my children being forced to live with that man. I am angry that my children should be subjected to this. But they are big boys and tower over the little Iranian man. She has not brought him to her house yet in the presence of the boys, but she would often ring them and tell them that he is in and that they are welcome to meet him. They have always avoided that by going to friends or coming to me. They have keys to our house. But, she has now taking it further. She is saying, rain or shine he is moving in. They have to accept it she said, otherwise they have to live with me permanently.
I am not attached to the woman I am going out with. I wanted to stop it a few months ago when the boys expressed discomfort, but she wanted the relationship to continue and said that she understood that the boys were priority. Believe me, having gone through the mill in the past couple of years, It would take me a long time to trust again.
Very sound advice, thank you.
PS, where are the articles on detachment kept?
Kind regards
Nomad1
You can find the detaching articles in the Men's category....there maybe one in the Introductions also.
Shepherdess
My 2 cents. Break all contact with her. That's the advice given here and by my shrink and it works. I haven't seen my stbx wife for over 5 weeks and have only spoken to her about our daughter (and I hate doing that). It really helps. It allows you to focus on the misery she caused you. BTW-my stbx wife is sleeping with a 23 year old-she's a month shy of 50. She has no intention of marrying him because she wants so sleep with other boys too. Break off-completely.
Hey, retrorv, let us hope that in twenty or thirty years time, these young, clueless scum who steal our women will experience similar fates when their wives run off with the local fraternity. That would be sweet justice, wouldn't it? This Saturday/Sunday (Oct. 3/4) will mark the one-year anti-versary of my busting my now-ex-wife in her affair with the summer intern. He kicked her to the curb long ago, and is no doubt out right now, trolling for other low-hanging scalps to hang on his termite-infested lodge pole. He'll eventually get what's coming to him. Us? We move on and live life. Is that what you're doing, my man?
Basilduke. Yes I am. The scumbag who's sleeping with my wife (when she jets across country to see him-here she has to get by with phone sex) has a girlfriend and my shank stbx wife is fine with that. As far as she's concerned sex is just an act. Why do people care so much about it? Monogomy is just a "societal rule". Or at least that's what she told me last year when she wanted an open relationship a year ago. I should've run from her then (then I could celebrate my one year anti-versary) but I stayed and tried. Now I'm 12+ weeks into the separation/divorce process and feel so much better.
It still hurts and I miss being a married man, and apprehensive about being single after being half of a couple for over 25 years, but I realize that she was just a ticking time that went off. I never knew how her childhood affected her-agoraphobic, alcoholic mother; passive enabling father; abortion in college; the death of her mother (alone, in a home), to name just a few. I just knew the facts. She's a nut case. Period. I'll get over her soon enough and then I'll sit back and watch her self-destruct.
Retrorv, I don't know that I'll ever truly get over my ex - or at least what she did to my son and me. She's far from evil, and the crap she pulled this past year was so astronomically counter to everything she had been up to that point, that I can only think that she went momentarily nuts. Of course, I now know that she'd been running silent for a LONG time prior to the actual D Day. I can't deny the obvious: something in her was screaming at her to "GO!!!!" And she finally went. She's stopped swinging her MLC wrecking ball for the time being, and I pray to God that she's able to reach a place that brings her permanent peace of mind and happiness. I wonder how much of her childhood is involved in this. Probably won't ever know.
But this nightmare life your wife is living? I can't phathom it, and I don't doubt one bit that you're still in pain. It seems like you're handling this like a soldier, and that's all you can hope for. The bombs are still going off. Why stand up in your foxhole? Stay down, protect yourself. So sad, Retrorv. I salute you.
Basil Duke
Hello all. Thanks for your replies. The good news is that I got an offer on the house yesterday. I rejected the first offer and suggested a slightly lower asking price. The Estate Agent who rang me to make the offer rang my ex wife and she was on the phone to me straight away, urging me to accept the offer. I explained to her that the house had to sell for a certain minimum to allow me to secure the money owed to me in the court order. I also spoke with the Estate Agent and explained that all negotiations about the sale had to be done with me as stated in the court order. The court order states that I am responsible for the sale. I am a fair man. I wouldn't go ahead with the sale without her consent of course, but I want to do the negotiating and not accept the first offer. Her dad bought her a house and paid it off completely, so she is under no pressure to find a new home, as I am.
I am so happy that this nightmare will be over soon. The money owed to me will solve my financial situation and prevent bankruptcy. The sale of the house is symbolic for me. I will start to rebuild my life from here on. I am a successful academic and I am beginning to get a glimpse of a brighter future. The past two years I have been strung and in pain. I can almost pinpoint where I feel the pain in my body. I am trying to understand my physical response in scientific terms, but it is irrational and I do not understand it. One thing I know is that she launches assaults in my direction through her words and her actions. These stimuli engender responses in me. Detachment is a sure way to isolate and minimise these stimuli. I am working on it.
The other thing is that my Ex wife and I had and still have a joint bank account. I have been asking her for the past two years to remove my name, signed a joint letter to the bank, but she has not removed my name. She used an overdraft facility on the joint account that she had promised to pay back, but she hasn't. I have been paying monthly interest on the joint account. I did not wish to default as I did not want my credit rating to be affected. I have been with the same bank for over 20 years and have always conducted my accounts sensibly.
She said that she will no longer drop the boys to me, that they will have to make their own way. I said fine. I rang the boys and said I will be picking them up this evening. She lives about half an hour drive away. I will make a nice meal for the boys tonight and perhaps watch a movie. The boys love my cooking. I love my cooking too :-).
I will keep you guys posted.
Best wishes to you all.
Nomad1
I will keep you posted.
Go take your own name off of that bank account...do NOT expect her to do anything for you anymore...IF you want to protect yourself from HER harm...YOU will have to build the Foxhole and get in it. SHE will not protect you anymore. Part of the detachment is knowing who she is in all of this...THE ENEMY! She has done nothing but hurt you for two years and you are still allowing her to get in some punches. Don't let her do this...make sure she lives up to all that the court has ordered, including dealing with the Boys. If you are questioning the way she is raising them...go back to court and change it, if you can. Don't let down your guard with this woman...she is not using a full deck and she is a role model for your boys.
You are getting there...continue to detach and stand up for what the court has ordered and your rights in all of this...if you don't...it will be your children who will suffer....not just you. Also, don't make exceptions just to get all of this over with...remember you have to be able to live with what you agree on now.
Shepherdess
Hi Shepherdess,
Thanks for your post. The bank would not take my name off the joint account without, either, paying off the overdraft or getting a letter signed by both to remove the other's name. I could do it through solicitors, but that would cost a fair bit.
I am not a push over by any means, but I agree with you that I still allow her to press my buttons, and she knows just which ones to press. I am detaching and it is getting easier. I have realised yesterday that after communicating with her about the house sale that I always feel agitated after speaking with her. I know I should NOT communicate with her at all.
I am hoping that the house sells soon. I am going to start looking for a flat to rent for a year or so, until I am able to get back on the housing market.
Have a great weekend all.
Nomad1
A quick update,
An offer was made on the house, which I initially rejected. The estate agents came back with a better offer, but I stuck to a minimum sale price to get the buyers to make an even better offer before I drop the asking price slightly. The Estate Agents spoke with the XW who told them to go ahead with the sale. Naturally I was not pleased with the Estate Agent, since I had shown them the part in the court order which said that I was responsible for conducting the sale. I explained to the XW that I did not wish to go ahead with the offer as it did not generate sufficient money for the mortgage to be paid off and for there to be enough money left over for me to take the sum agreed through the courts. She then suggested that she would give me an additional lump sum which is at least £6000 short of what I am owed. I agreed, but said that I was not going to sign anything until the money is transferred to my solicitor. I know that I should have insisted to get the full sum as per the court order, but I am anxious to sell and get this nightmare over with and this is the best offer we have had.
On a lighter note, it was my youngest son's 15th birthday on Saturday. He had invited 6 of his friends to stay over. I had ordered a Birthday cake for him. He had a really nice time. So the house was full of boys, with my other two sons and me, there were 10 of us! We had great fun.
I woke up feeling angry this morning. I am guessing that it is the thought of letting go of my beautiful home...the uncertainty that lays ahead....the feeling of helplessness at the unfairness and lunacy of the XW. I hate feeling angry. At times it feels debilitating. How can I detach from this situation when the aftermath of the hurricane is beginning to have tangible effects on my material condition. I have worked all my adult life and was the eternal student simultaneously, which has enabled me to develop a good career in the academic world. I now find myself with nothing but a huge struggle to get back on my feet so that I can rebuild a nest for my children to be with me.
I don't know what to do. If the sale actually goes ahead, I may be able to have just enough for a deposit to buy a two bedroom flat. But I will have to find extra work to clear off some of the debts I have accumulated over the past two years. A good thing about this option is that my boys will be able to stay with me whenever they want.
Option two would be to move in with my woman friend, who says she loves me and wants us to live together. She is happy for the boys to visit and stay whenever they want, she says.
I am not sure what to do. I don't want to jump from the frying pan into the fire. I don't really feel ready for that kind of commitment. It is so hard! I have to deal with all these life altering decisions while getting on with a highly responsible/demanding job.
You have a good day all.
Nomad1
You have a woman friend? This doesn't make sense to me...
You are all upset about losing your wife or the family/life you had with her but you are quick to hook up with some broad that is willing to let you shack up with her while you get back on your feet?
I get that your XW is a B*ch on wheels and she deserves not one inch or bit of consideration after what she has done to you and your boys...but this is one thing that I have never understood about a man who has been done wrong...they are so quick to get another woman under their wing...because they are lonely or they need to get some. It is SO unfair to the Other Woman ....because that IS exactly what she is...she is YOUR OW...YOU ARE NOT DIVORCED YET! Or are you? It is just so unfair to this OW because you are still healing...you may still be hurting...you are NOT over your XW and what she has done to your life...YOU are taking HUGE baggage in to your relationship with her ...YOU are burdening her with your pain, resentment and anger.
I have to agree with others here who have followed the experts advice...it just isn't a good idea to get involved with another person until you know you are healed and ready to move on...at least till all the details of your divorce are complete. Bringing another person in to the situation is just selfish. The woman in MLC is supposed to be the selfish person...not the LBS.
Get your own place and take care of your boys when you have them...they need you now more than another woman...your OW is just a replacement for your XW...in more ways than one...It is just SOOO unfair.
I know...because I was an OW to a man who was going through a D with a XW who ran off with another man. After everything was said and done and the fog lifted..he realized he needed space and left...it hurt his kids and me. I felt used...it was unfair. I was a rebound...a replacement...I ultimately became a part of HIS wife's MLC storm.
Take care of you and yours before you bring in others...you will be glad you did!
My history and what I have learned through my MLC journey allows me to....
TellItLikeItIS
[Edited to add: My message below was written in response to a post by someone named "Tell It Like It Is." However, Tell It Like It Is's original post was removed shortly before I finished this message. She had cautioned Nomad against getting involved with another woman prior to getting divorced - and prior to emotionally healing.]
I get where Tell It Like It Is is coming from; I really do. It's NOT fair to the new woman. When I was bandying about the idea of dating, prior my divorce but AFTER it was quite clear I was getting divorced, my brother phrased it to me thusly: "You can't expect a self-respecting, decent woman to serve as your therapy doll."
And he was right. At the time, I had no business getting within a hundred yards of a woman. Right now, that zone of separation has been winnowed to 90 yards, but I still have a lot of emotional toxins to filter before I'm fit romantic company. Not sure when I'll "know" I'm ready, but at the time, there's nothing to do but hold steady and continue healing. (To be honest, I don't even know what "healing" means. Does it describe the mere act of NOT interacting romantically with women for a long period of time? When encountering an unknown female, I'm regularly reminded of The Doors line: "Women seem wicked, when you're unwanted." Maybe when I stop seeing ice and arrogance in the face of every woman stranger I run across, I'll be there.)
However, somebody, sooner or later, is going to have to serve as the proverbial rebound girlfriend. That is, unless the betrayed husband opts for a life of celibacy - which I have no intention of doing. (But thank God for anti-anxiety meds and the chilling effect they have on the libido!) It might be a year from now, or two or three years, but eventually, some St. Louis lass is going to be my "girlfriend." Which will make her the first girlfriend I've had since my wife dispensed with me. A rebound woman.
Nomad, I don't think you'd be doing anyone any favors by moving in with your woman friend. At this point, it just seems like an exercise doomed to fail. You'd probably be better off - as would your kids - by establishing a new domestic headquarters just for you and them. Ease into your new lifestyle, on your own terms and with your own energy.
When our wives stampede off the reservation, we're stuck with very little except the lesser of two evils, by way of our major life decisions. This is another of them. You miss women but you're not really ready to have a woman in your life. So you deprive yourself of much desired female companionship - because your last female companionship about ripped your heart out through your breast bone. It's maddening.
Basil Duke
Hi Basil,
I divorced my XW the minute I smelled foul play. We have been formally divorced for a year and a half now. I am not from the school of thought that will fight for marriage when there is foul play or when one person wants out. The betrayal was devastating, for sure, but I switched off the moment I decided to divorce her. She wanted to get back once I filed, but I made it categorically clear that I had completely lost interest. I have dated lots of women over the past two years. Some relationships lasted a couple of months, others longer. In all these relationships, I was able to separate sex from the emotions. That sounds like a contradiction in terms, but I was able to enjoy the company without the deep conversations. In fact this was the reason why most of the relationships came to an end.
I guess my concern about moving in with my woman friend is that I don't want to lose my independence and my free time with my children. Also the anger is still there. I felt it acutely this morning, but I feel ok right now. I guess it's just the way it is.
Take care all
Nomad1
Funny, I was really, REALLY angry yesterday. Cycled right back to near-fury at my ex and her idiotic ex-boyfriend. Lesson learned: don't power drink on an empty stomach, especially while watching a Rams game while preparing to sign away all your legal rights to a house you poured your heart into for nine years. A recipe for disaster. That anger scared me, Nomad. I don't like it. Don't like yielding to it. Hate having that SOB other 'man' take up any space at all in my head. And far better to let my ex swirl down the drain without me directing savage thoughts her way. That makes me feel like an accomplice to her self-demolition.
I wasn't aware that you'd been divorced for a year and a half. I salute you for ditching her as soon as you found out about the infidelity. I should have done the exact same thing - and wish I had. Oh, do I wish I had. But that's all hindsight. At the time, like all the other guys, I thought I could 'fix' her - and "save" the marriage and my family. That's impossible, however, when you're going it alone.
That was the esssential thing I didn't grasp: she simply wanted out. She was done with me. Fini. By the time I figured out how bad it was, it was even worse than I thought. It's not the end of the world, but it sure felt like it at the time. And I was reminded of that hopelessness and despair yesterday, when I was so seized with anger.
Re: your freedom: I totally appreciate what you're saying. It IS refreshing to be able to live your life on your own accord, talk to who you want, when you want and where you want.
There's no way I could have a woman living in my apartment with me. I'd feel like an eagle that was trapped and shoved into a mailbox.
Good morning Basil and all. I completely understand how it feels when you are about to sign away your rights to a home. I remember crying (I don't cry easily) while driving to work when the first offer was made on the house and it was going through until the buyers' sale of their house fell through. It was a mixture of joy and sadness. Joy because I wanted an end to the entrapment I felt being stuck in a house that was not selling. I yearned for a new beginning. Sadness because I had invested so much in my home. I had turned it into a lovely family home. I had put all the money from the sale of a previous house I had owned for 18 years. I was imagining a life with my family in this house where my children will stay until they go to university. It has 5 bedrooms and a lovely 65 south facing foot garden. But, as they say, a house is not a home.
I think that in all this ordeal, the worst part was / is the anger that has consumed me for so long. I want it to end.
Anyway. I am teaching this morning and I have to drive to the other end of London, so must dash.
Have a great day. This will all become a distant memory basil.
Take care
Nomad
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