My story

Hello, Dancing Jack. Sorry to hear about your dilemma. You're up against it. Many triggers have apparently conspired inside your wife to bring her and you to this point - your boys leaving for university, her father dying, 50th birthday - and maybe menopause.

Keep focusing on protecting your children and yourself, because for the time being, your wife is off the reservation. And she might not be coming back. If you haven't read the threads here, please do so - immediately. Read all of them, and carefully. You'll learn a lot.

You're not going to be able to 'change' your wife. That's something you're going to have to accept, immediately. If she's going to get better, it'll have to be on her own accord. You're an obstruction to her - an impediment to what she thinks she needs to find happiness. Keep any interaction with her to "business" - the children and finances. Don't try to draw her into a conversation about what she's thinking, what she might do next, what you can do to 'help,' etc. And DO NOT apologize for anything. She'll be rewriting history to justify her actions, and you're going to be the bad guy in the updated account of your marital history. Don't accept her accusations and blame-shifting. This is all on her.

Keep posting.

Basil Duke
St. Louis, MO
Moderator 

Basil Duke
thanks for your post. I have read your story too and I am very sorry to hear of what you have been going through.
I accept all of your advice and will try to follow it. My wife is like an alien to me now and I must keep contact with her to an absolute minimum. We have sorted out the arrangements for the house and finances.With regard to our daughter I can contact her by mobile phone or text to discuss her plans for staying with me. However, there is a slight problem on the horizon. On Thursday my wife and I should attend a parents`evening at our daughter`s school. This will mean I will have to be in her company for several hours. I have never missed a parents`evening for any of our children and don`t want to start now.That said my feelings are still too raw (she only left on 31st August ) to be in her company for this length of time, particularly as we will be with other parents ,some of whom may not know of our separation. I`m not sure if I should go or not and I shall be grateful for your observations.

Hello, Dancing Jack. The parents evening will be difficult, but I think you should go - for your daughter's sake. I would go separately, however, from your wife. People will obviously figure out pretty quickly that something's amiss, but gossip and speculation are part and parcel to the human condition, I'm afraid. If any one asks, give them an answer that you feel appropriate to your situation. "It's a personal matter," etc.

A couple of months after my ex-wife dumped me for the college turd, we had to attend a teachers/parents conference at our son's school. We were there for about two hours, in the same room, and I didn't look at her or acknowledge her the entire time. I was still livid with rage at what she was doing, and was certainly in no mood to pretend like things were normal. I remained honest to my own emotions and feelings throughout my debacle - sometimes for the better and sometimes for the worse. But I sensed that this thing couldn't be managed as I would have a "normal" calamity. Reason and logic were thrown out the window - by her. Other than protecting my kid at all hazards, I focused on 'me.' And if I wanted to be a sarcastic and cutting SOB to her, I was. If I wanted to be relatively nice to her, I was. Do what you're comfortable with. There are no right and wrong answers here. You're trying to survive.

Basil Duke

Dancingjack:

Please read all you can here at the forum.  I believe knowledge is power...gives a person strength and something to stand on...to get you through the harder times in this storm we call MLC.  

I think your W is possibily going through Crisis at Mid-Life...the triggers are quite apparent, along with the possibility of depression, which can occur due to perio-menopause/menopause; sleep disturbances/sleep apnea; severe allergies, changes in hormones (Thyroid or Adrenal)...these very same things can cause low sexual libido, lack of concentration/focus, foggy, anxiety...etc.  It sounds to me like she is running because she has convinced herself that she has to fit all this in before she dies...she is using her own mother's life length as her own measuring stick for her own.

I would not dismiss the fact that there isn't another person lurking around in the shadows somewhere...either on the internet through Facebook, Classmates or another social network...maybe even with in her personal network in her work or your community.  Most women don't launch out of the house unless they have a place to land and the possibility of another male stepping in...even if it is very much on the fringe....there may be a man that she has her eye on or has their eye on her.  The fact that she left gives her permission to pursue it at this point.

MLC Woman Think: Out of the house = permission to do anything I want = I am no longer married.

UNLESS she left your house with specific boundaries and deal breakers/conditions set by YOU...THEN and ONLY then is she held to what YOU think or want.  Otherwise, she is on her own program and anything goes!

Time to detach...but gain back some of the control over this situation.  It seems to me that SHE is calling the shots here.  Who the heck gave her a two year sabbaotical from your marriage?  Did YOU give her this period of time? A two year sabbotical from a marriage is called Legal Separation...if this is what she wants...get to the lawyer and make it so!   In fact...if you haven't gotten to a lawyer...GET TO ONE TODAY...sooner than later!!!  

Again, knowledge is power and strength...gets back some of the control in these situations. Going to the lawyers office doesn't have to mean that you get any paperwork in motion...it can just be a fact finding mission, so when she makes decisions or she does something that goes against any agreement you have made...you can respond or be able to have legal representation immediately.  

DO NOT LET HER CALL  ALL THE SHOTS.

Her excuse for leaving is really justifications and rational-lies...I get most of it but they are really quite weak and the fact that she is throwing the blame back on to you...well...like most men here will tell you fits right in to the textbook response from Women in MLC for Dummies.

Go to your daughter's school Open House.  Your number one priority other than yourself at this time IS your children.  Who cares about how embarassed she will be...YOU are not to blame for any of this happening. Be there for your child...Detach...Detach...Detach...

This means...Detach emotionally.  Act even, neutral, unemotional...business-like.  Your daughter needs you to be strong right now.

I know it will be hard to do...but this is just one of many times you will have to do it!  Step out for your daughter....if you don't go...it will be a sign of weakness or that your W's actions are getting to you. 

Read through MLBHomes thread...he has been going through a similiar situation...Keep coming back here for more encouragement and advice. 

We are here when you need.

Shepherdess

Shepherdess thank you for your post. I think you are spot on with regard to her mother. My W was very close to her and she is also very close to her younger sister (whom I know well and trust ). When they were growing up they all had to deal with the misery caused by her father`s depression. When we married and had children her mother became our nanny and she was also very close to our children. When I look back I can see now that my W never really grieved for her mother`s death. Her mother would have been like that too. My W has also been heard to comment upon the young age at which her mother died and how she has only  so many years left if she does not outlive her.

 With regard to another man the truth is I don`t know but I shall be surprised if there is one. My W has caused me so much pain that , in some respects, it would have been easier to accept if she was leaving me for another party. Although my sister in law has not been in direct contact with me (because she is in a conflict situation ) she did get a message back to me via my sister (who she knows well ) that there is nobody else involved. Furthermore if my wife has been cheating our children would not forgive her.

She is able to leave and move into rented property because we have money and can just about afford the rent. However , she will need a financial contribution from me which I have agreed to pay. Whilst some may take this as a sign of weakness, if I refused she might try to force a sale of the house which neither me or the children want at this stage. Even with my contribution her standard of living will fall quite dramatically.I should also point out that my W is furnishing her property with other peoples`cast offs.Whilst I find this truly remarkable (as she is leaving a lovely home ) I suppose it is an indication of her feelings and that this move is about her and not things.

She has been calling the shots; she is driving this change not me. For weeks I was in a state of shock and barely able to function. I am now much better. I did not agree to a two year separation and there are no ground rules as such.If my W does meet someone else after a period of time there is nothing I can do about it; hopefully, by that stage I won`t care as I am trying hard to detach.

I have taken legal advice. In the UK there is nothing to be gained by obtaining a formal legal separation at this stage and I have been advised to do nothing if I wish to remain in the house which is certainly my short term plan as it gives me and the children some stability. If the situation changes I will deal with it.

I shall definitely attend my daughter`s open evening. I shall stand tall. I will be business like. I have no intention of speaking to my W about this situation. After that I shall keep contact to a minimum and strictly in relation to family/financial matters only.

We have been together 26 years; at least 24 of them were very happy. I know I must deal with the reality but I still struggle to comprehend how this has happened. I believe my W is in turmoil but I cannot change her and I am the last person she would listen to. My mother (age nearly 85 ) is our last surviving parent. My W is very  close to her and my mother wrote to my W offering the hand of continued friendship despite what has happened. My daughter was there when she opened the letter and my W cried. Yet despite this she continues with her journey and who knows when it will end.

Thanks again. Posting here really helps.Jack.

Dancing Jack,

I feel for your situation. As Shepherdess suggests read my threads. Do as she suggests. There is no negotiating here, anything you hear will be nothing but lies for her to achieve whatever it is she feels she's looking for.

I am completely detached, I have cut her off, as has my son. My daughter is struggling with it, but she has also been lied to and manipulated and I feel she will be cutting mom off also.

It is truly a storm, the tasmanian devil of emotion and conflict, thaqt you can not be sucked into. Protect yourself and your kids, assume nothing based on past memories of your life with your wife.
My wife were together 30 years , 24 married. Her personality has changed 180 degrees.

I was an emotional cripple in the beginning, but through the lovely people here, I am trying to fight a noble battle againest the forces of evil. I have been down on many occasions, like recently. But I have 2 angels, BasilDuke who is the "devil" on one shoulder and Shepherdess is the angel on the other shoulder. When I'm down Basil pops on one shoulder and hits me in the back of the head and tells me to stop mopping and get in the fight for my kids. Shepherdess then pops on the other shoulder to talk me through the the latest issues. It's a great one two combo.

My daughter plays HS volleyball so I have to see my W twice a week at the games. I do not sit by her, even though she thinks we should for our daughter and appearences. Well, she lives with the OM, and when she was home for 5 wks, she never sat by me once. So if the parents ask...ahh what's going on, I tell them the truth, we are not together, and she no longer lives in the house, by her choice.

You deal with your wife w/o emotion, deadpan, poker face, give nothing away. No anger, resentment. Let her guess what your thinking.

DETACH, it really does help

MLBHOME

MLBHOME
 
I have been following your threads and I also read all others on here it seems to give me more and more strength to get "over" the pain and grief I feel on a daily basis.  I'm six months into this MESS and slowly, very slowly, getting better at detaching.  I have gone, or thought I had gone, NC until someone on another site gave me more advice about NC.  Has the detaching helped you?  I can see that it seems to help you BUT do you still have thoughts or dreams about your W and the hope that some day she will "come out of this FOG" and wake up?  Obviously, by me asking these questions you can tell where my thoughts and dreams are still...Thanks for listening time to try and get some sleep.
 
Peace my friends

noidea,

I'll be truthful that I still hope for the fog to clear. Why.....well try to be optimistic. Can she hurt me anymore then she already has, you know affair, lies, betrayal, resentment, and all the rest is out there now, she can't throw anymore on me. At this point I don't want what my wife has turned into back, OM can have her as she is, he helped create it.

Also can I forgive her?? Well, I'll be honest it depends. If she "crashes" and accepts responsibility for what she's done, and has GENUINE and SINCERE remorse and recognizes she needs help, and agrees to follow the rules to be laid out for NC by Shep, AND counseling with Shep I would think about it. But I don't think I would let her back in the house right away, part of me says she has to earn it back.

If she wants back like she did before, answer is no.

Plus she shot off e-mails and told friends she wants a divorce so I told her to get it. Then she said she never said it (you know the drill). So I want her to put up or shut on the divorce. To my knowledge she hasn't done anything as she has no money. She works full time but the woman could never save a dime in her life. She might be now as I  know she's not spent more the 50 bucks on the kids since she's been gone, plus she likes her lifestyle and she does not have that w/ OM, and if she trys to go it alone like an apt, she'll never afford it. I've done the math. Add in what would happen to her in a legal proceeding..in the words of my attorney.."she's toast".

The first time she left I paid the first week in the hotel, then I told her she's on her own, that was the big thing in her mind at the time. So she stayed in one of those hotel efficency places which was cheaper but still very expensive. So she could not manage that.

In my mind she has to start feeling the pressure. She has been disowned by parents, only her mother speaks to her and that is strained, father will not speak to her, niether will 2 sisters and brother and associated families. Most her friends have dropped her, and she them as if they don't agree with her she dumps them, Her son has NC with her, I do not, my daughter does but it's limited by school and her own life. So...she has what she has wanted all aloong, a car porter loser, w/ no money, 1 bdrm apt, no future, no education, no motovation, more selfish than she is ( I have that on good authority), and her former work friends are on his a$$ daily when they see him about what a scumbag he is.

For her, she traded what she has for that, for a "feeling", she has no money, w/o OM no place to live, no friends, no family, her full time job goes partime Oct 1, and the stigma of people whispering behind of "look what she's done" which I know bothers her, as she doesn't want anyone to know. Me, if somebody asks, I tell them the truth.

Also you have Sheps story about coming out of it, and forgivness and redemption. Also I have a guy I work with for 12 years whose wife did the same thing as my wife, exactly, met some loser, moved in with him and so on. Then at the 3 month mark, he dumped her. she crashed and they managed to put it back together and now 16 years later they are still happily together with 2 great daughters. He told me that when my wife came back the first time that she would leave again as it wasn't long enough for her to see that the fantasy is not real. Shep said the same thing. And they were both right.

Detaching....yes it does work, The last time I detached but was trying to be compassionate, I let her visit our daughter in the house, let her do her laundry, but I kept my distance. This time, hardcore. She cannot come in the house unless I'm there, no visiting in the house she picks daughter up and they go wherever, I have nothing to do with her, no calls, no text, no acknowledgement at daughter VB games, this person she is is a complete starngr to me. If I do have to say something to her or text, it's no emotion, business like, few words. She made a tactical error in a weak moment 3 mos ago that she wants both worlds, and everything she has done is to try and keep that middle ground. Not this time, she has nothing here, it just hasn't sunk in to her yet.

I have my weak moments, then BasilDuke hits me in the cranium with the war club and wakes me up.

You can not stop what is happening. That I think is the hardest thing to grasp. My kids grasped it early and I did not. I thought I could stop it, fix it, save it, but you can't. I have to let her go to the end of the journey on her own, and when she reaches the end see where she's at. She may not want to come back, I know that, but she may want to, but it's in God's hands, I can not do anything for her. I am getting on with my life. I have my daughter and son that keep me busy, work, and some friends that see what I'm going through and offer what help they can. Slowly my life has gone on.....I try not to focus on my W anymore as she and her circus is a distraction.

She wanted it this way, although she denies it. I did what I could. I have the respect and admiration of everyone that knows us for doing what I have done and continue to do. I am trying to be above the circus and chaos taking the high road, you should to. It's not easy by any means, but what's the alternative??

Hope this helps, stay in the fight

MLBHOME

Detaching absolutely helped me. In my situation, it became clear pretty quickly that my now ex-wife wasn't "coming back." Like all of us, I initially nursed the inevitable forlorn dreams of a miracle. But those fantasies eventually dwindled to nothing.

You have to realize that at the time, my wife was fully sexually involved with her new 'man' - and my son was having serious emotional problems as a result of the cataclysmic changes his mother had forced on his life. Plummeting grades, minor problems with local law enforcement, jettisoning his old friends and replacing them with broken home/latch key urchins, etc. It occurred to me that I wanted nothing to do with her - that interacting with her as though we were friendly acquaintances was absurd, and hurtful. She really was like a tornado - or a rabid bull. The closer I got to her, the more she hurt me. If we spoke about non-essential matters, I would begin to think "Hey, that was pleasant!" And then I'd realize she'd be sharing a bed with her lover later that day.

And that my son was still flunking out of school. And that we were now broke.

There was NOTHING to be gained by speaking to her about anything except finances and the boy. Detaching helped me get my emotional bearings and begin to heal, on my own terms. She couldn't call the shots if I left the pool hall. She had to sputter and hiss and whirl by herself.

Basil Duke
Moderator
St. Louis, MO 

Basil, is correct. Detaching puts you back in control of your of your life on your terms. If you read back to my post of about 2 weeks ago when the W left for the second time, I was very down, no direction again, and not wanting to face calling in the legal team. Basil sent me post that a fight manager yells to his fighter, to get back up, get back in fight, your kids need you to get back in there. Also Shepherdess sent a great post restablishing the facts, and getting me emotionally back on track.

I also had a WONDERFUL phone consult with her, and while we did talk at length about the W and her issues, we did work on me, and that was a great help.

I would recommend that you set up a phone consult with Shep, I can not tell you how much it helped to get my focus back.

Of course I have BasilDuke, to hit me with the trash can lid whenever I start feeling sorry for myself,
his arm must be getting tired by now!!

Salange,

MLBHOME

Noidea:
OnholdAZ when we were over at Path Partners used to call the trash can lid  the "Louisville Slugger"!  He used it on the men AND the women...and believe me he didn't swing it unless it was absolutely necessary!!!  But when he did...the sense was knocked back in to ya!  He used it on me many a time! We ALL need a good 2x4 action every once and awhile to get back in to the game.  

Detaching IS the best thing to do, no matter which way things go in time.  Please understand...you are not necessarily totally disconnecting right now...you can't because you have children.  Detach means disconnect the emotions around the situation, especially when you are in her presence.  SHE is NOT to see the emotions...that you hurt, that you dream ...that you are hoping for a miracle.  

Detach when you are alone means you focus in on yourself and make your children your primary concern and activity.  Take care of your health, take up old or new hobbies...become more involved with your children and their activities....STOP thinking about your Wife the way she USED to be...that woman is gone forever...even if she does return....the woman that will return is one that has grown and hopefully matured and has a better handle on her life...BUT...this woman may never wake up to what she has to do....she, indeed, may be gone for good...you wouldn't want the woman that she is now.  SOOOOO, detaching emotionally, detaching from the thought of your old wife is the first big step that you take in not enabling HER or YOU in this co-dependency of bad behavior.  It is her addiction and if you allow the emotions...allow her to manipulate and push buttons...you are enabling and giving her exactly what she wants...her self perceived retribution against you.  The crazy thing IS...you probably don't deserve any of it....probably not even a quarter of it.  

I would love to hear what you were told about No Contact and detaching at the other site...I believe that we are a bit more hard core about this topic.  The approach here is very similiar to the way you treat an addict or a child who is completely out of control...Tough Love.  

Please let me know if you want to have a Coaching call or consider becoming a Silver Member($12.95 per month)...you will receive three hours( $195.00 value) for Free if you sign up before Sept 31st....plus you get the teleseminars and the upcoming Newsletter and a copy of my book when it is released.  Contact me privately here at the forum if you are interested.

Shepherdess

Today I heard from my wife for the first time in over a week. She sent me a friendly/chatty email about our daughter`s parents`evening on Thursday and before I could reply she `phoned. It was difficult to begin with but she was very friendly and wanted to talk. Whilst she caught me off guard I mainly listened at first. I confirmed I was going on Thursday and we talked about the arrangements we have made regarding finance and our daughter.We also asked each other how we are getting on and generally had a friendly, civilised conversation. We probably talked more than we had done in the previous 7 weeks. This was a pleasant experience as she sounded like my old wife , not the imposter who walked out last week.The problem is I am not ready just to be my wife`s friend; I am the LBS and trying hard to detach, a task which I fear is going to become a great deal harder if my wife calls me and we get on like this. I am now quite confused and fear that today`s events have been a setback . I would welcome the views of any of you who have been in this situation.  Jack.

Successful detaching requires discipline - and time. Your wife is playing with you, as a big cat would with a stunned mouse - batting your emotions here and there to see what kind of response she can get. "Do I still have him where I want him?" she's asking. "Do I still have the power to mess with his head?"

The answer, for now, is 'yes.' STOP  CHIT-CHATTING with her! She left you, man. She's not your friend. The pleasant creature you heard purring on the phone is a mad tigress in disguise. You ignored her for a week, and got her wondering what the hell happened. This is, after all, her show. Your job is to lay down and let her kick you in the teeth.

But here's what's going to happen, now that she played nice and confused you: In a matter of days, she'll remind you just exactly why you have to detach. She'll rip out your heart a little bit more in some very subtle but cruel and exquisitely female way. And you'll be back to where you started.

There's no way your wife has been 'cured' in a matter of several days. None. Hell, man, she's just getting started, I'm afraid. Which is all the more reason for you to take shelter - and stay there. When she reaches out, ignore her, unless it's about the kids or finances. All else is irrelevant to you.

Basil Duke  

Yup...what Basilduke said...Ditto from me too!  Couldn't have said it better!  Beware and caution are your by-words....This ain't over yet.....They are NEVER this short......She hasn't even really hit bricks on the Yellow Brick Road yet...she's still standing in the doorway amazed at all the beautiful. colors wondering if she is still in Kansas anymore.  Believe me...this Dorothy may sound like the GOod Witch on the phone...but the Bad Witch is yet to show her face...Toto...You are NOT in Kansas anymore!

Shepherdess

Jack,

Beware. this is stanrd operating procedure. The set-up for the smack down. Don't buy it. She left you,
it's ok to be angry about that, but don't show it to her. I would take a bat and beat a brick post in the backyard.

Detaching is difficult but effective as it helps you to keep your emotions out of the decision making, and puts you back in control. Don't worry if your afraid she'll be hurt or whatever, do you think she cared about your feelings when she walked out.??

Your in a war. Put the white flag away. Your Gen. McCuliffe at Bastogone surrounded by the MLC flying monkeys. Your wife just handed you a surrender demand or she'll annilate your emotions.

Remember what McCuliffe said...."Nuts"!

MLBHOME

Thank you for your posts. Points well made and understood. I`m back in reality now. On Thursday I shall be business like and nothing more. I will let you know how I get on.

All

Thank you for all your responses they are very helpful and always have been and I'm sure will be more helpful in future.  Shep...the guys and gals on the "other site" have also helped me with figuring out this deatching issue as well as how to proceed with NC.  Their take is also pretty "hard lined" that NC is just that... NC!   It is ME who has to get with the program and start to get over this and on with my life.  I do not have children with my W, but my W's children (my step children) are both adults and I have not had any contact with yjr, since the start of this MESS!  My guess is simply due to the fact of "blood is thicker then water" theory there is absolutely no other reason and quite frankly I am stunned that I haven't heard from them or someone from her family AT ALL!  As most of us can claim I was a VERY GOOD step father,SIL and BIL so on top of all of the typical grief and pain from MLC with the W I have to also deal with the loss of a whole other family whom I really loved....can't figure this stuff out! 

Peace my frineds

Good morning, No Idea. I wouldn't spend too much time trying to figure out the 'in-law' and step-children silence. They've been sucked into your wife's funnel cloud along with you. Maybe they're embarassed. Maybe they're confused and afraid. Maybe they've bought into your wife's BS rewrite of history and now think poorly of you. And, maybe, they've simply decided to rally around their blood kin - as you mentioned. What does it really matter? Even if they were talking to you, your wife would still be off the rails, and there wouldn't be a thing they could do to help. At least you know who NOT to turn to.

I was a member of my wife's family for twenty-five years. I vacationed with them every summer, saved her aunt from drowning, ate many, many holiday dinners with them, eulogized my wife's brother after he commited suicide at the age of 45, wrote her father's obituary and helped carry both brother and father's casket. And I haven't heard a word from any of them in over a year - since this erupted. Not a word. And there are nine siblings left alive. (Originally, my ex had nine brothers and a sister.) My ex-wife hasn't spoken to my mother or twin brother (with whom she was VERY close) in that same period of time. My mom treated the ex like a daughter. The last time I was home, my mother observed that "This is killing me. I feel like I've had a daughter die and I wasn't even given a chance to say goodbye to her." I passed those words, verbatim, along to my ex - and got no response.

Remember: we're dealing with extra-ordinary circumstances. "Normal" doesn't exist any more.

Basil Duke
Moderator
St. Louis, MO   

Well I did it. I managed to attend the parents`evening and kept my cool. I had arranged to meet my W about 15 minutes before it started and she was late. She looked gaunt. She is a slim lady anyway and has lost a lot of weight since this all started. I remained calm and kept the discussion to business matters only. I avoided chit chat. There were some awkward moments when we had to tell some parents of our separation. I was  irritated to discover that my W had emailed our daughter`s form teacher to explain our situation without sending a copy to me. I made my displeasure clear and said all communications to and from the school must be sent/copied to both of us. She left as quickly as she could without socialising. She is normally the sociable one but hardly spoke to anybody. I walked her to her car and said goodbye.Her passing comment was that we should  keep in touch at least once a week by phone or email "so that these occasions are not so difficult in the future ". I said I would think about it and gave no commitment. I already know what Basil will say !

This was not a pleasant occasion but after my W left I spoke to some parents we know well. The lady had tried to contact my W to support her but she only responded with a  brief text and has not been in touch since then. This is typical of my W who is a very private person. This is also the main reason why she will not take any professional advice about her condition/predicament.

My life will change again in the near future when my sons return to university and for part of the week I shall be living alone. A few weeks ago I dreaded this situation but now I have more confidence and know I will be alright even though the transition will be difficult.Whilst I shall miss my wonderful sons hugely I shall go and see them from time to time and they will be returning to see me once or twice during the term.

I still feel this is an unfolding story. As far as I am aware there is still  no evidence of another man. My W seems all at sea and lost in her thoughts.It is such a pity that she been overtaken by this MLC monster but I can do nothing to help her. I will now keep my head down and look after myself and my family.

Thanks for all your help and guidance. As I have said posting here really helps. Jack.