Brand New Member: My Story
Greetings,
I am so grateful to have found this site. I have been reading the posts for several days. As sorry as I am for the people going through this, it is so nice to know that I am not alone. In fact, some of the stories are eerily similar to my own. With that in mind, I should tell my story, because I hope to ask questions.
I am 45 years old, my W is 47. We have been married for 20 years and have 5 children ranging in age from 19 (who recently moved out to go to college) to the twins that are nine (with a 16 year old and 11 year old in the middle). The usual minor ups and downs of any marriage, but I always considered myself happy and up until recently, would have stacked my marriage against anyone’s. We rarely argued and I, undoubtedly erroneously, considered that a good thing. I should mention that my W hates conflict. I should also mention that my W has been peri-menopausal for a few years and as of this last month, she has begun to experience erratic menstrual cycles.
We did, however, have one tough time back in ’98. I was working full time and was a full time graduate student. I spent all of my time working or studying and missed out on my young children’s lives for about a year. Indeed, I admit that I did not handle that well. I remember passing the PhD qualifying exam and bringing my W home some flowers. She said “Glad you passed, because I was only a few weeks from leaving you”. At that that time I vowed never to let that happen again and by in large, have not. I finished my PhD part-time and did a much better job of time management and was much more involved with the kids.
In 2006, we lost my mother-in-law to cancer. This devastated my wife, they were inseparable. She tried to go to grief counseling, but did not click with the therapist and just stopped going. I was just finishing my PhD thesis, so once again I may not have been as much of a help as I should have. But in all fairness to me, I tried very hard and my W never complained. The years 2007 and 2008 were, what I thought, good years. For the first time in our marriage, we travelled quite a bit, including a full family vacation (our first) and a trip to Hawaii. In 2008, we realized a resurgence of our physical relationship which I was very grateful for.
But early in 2009 I notice a change in my wife. I correlated it with the introduction of my wife to FaceBook and texting, both of which she would do for hours at a time, sometimes at the same time. By her own admission, my wife is prone to compulsive behavior. After the twins were born, her weight went up to over 220 lbs (she was about 120 when we got married). I told her I did not care about the weight, but she said she was unhappy and concerned about her health. So I encouraged her to start a diet and exercise program and BOY, did she. She quickly worked up to working out several hours a day between the track and the gym. To this day she will work out between 4 and 6 hours a day. BUT, she does look great and is in excellent health!
Anyway, the FaceBook and texting included several guys, mostly high school friends that she had found on FB. Now, in 20 years I had never check up on my wife, mostly, I suppose, because I never had reason to. One day I am cleaning out her email account as I have always done for her and I come across a thread of emails in the deleted box that were, well, odd. It was with a high school friend and it described how she always had a crush on her, used to fantasize about marrying him….. It was not actually sexual, but I thought it strange. I confronted her about it and the fact that her FB threads were downright flirtatious. She immediately broke into tears, said how much she missed her mother and how, after being a wife and mother for all these years (she is a homemaker) did not know who she was anymore. Naturally, I shifted my focus to how I could help (I never did get an answer on the email thread). I told her she should consider going back to counseling and that if she wanted to consider going back to work, I supported that 100%. She could even go back to school, take training, whatever. I would alter my schedule to make it happen. None of those things ever happened.
The experience made me a bit weary and nervous, my trust in her took a serious hit. So, for better or worse, I start checking her phone call and texting records. I noticed that she had texting a another guy from high school that she met up with one night at a mini high school reunion (lots of males and female at this event). No big deal in and of itself, but it was as much as 100 texts a day. So once again I confronted her again. Now she is very angry with me for checking up on her. She would not let me see her phone. I asked her what she was talking to the guy about, “my marriage” was her reply. I said “huh, what about your marriage and why are you not talking to me”? Not sure I ever got an answer but she convinced me that nothing was happening. A month or so later I found out that she had run off to have lunch with this guy without telling me. She said that it was because he had some problem that he did not want anyone to know about and she re-assured me that nothing was happening and that she did love me.
So, time goes on and it is clear something is not right. So I am pushing her hard to tell me what is wrong, reminder her how much I love her. Finally, in June, she says “I do not think I am in love”. Despite the fact that I knew something was wrong, I was devastated. I had to clear my head, so I left that night to visit my family in the Southeast. It worked, I came back much more level headed, but she was very angry that I left.
While I was gone, we had a few phone call conversations, and she assured me that nothing was “edged in stone”. She had friends that had done couples counseling and were now fine. When I got back, things didn’t seem so bad. She assured me that we would do counseling. She wanted us to go to individual counseling first and then come together for couples counseling, because, by her own admission, she had several issues to deal with. She also seem relatively comfortable around me, we were still sleeping in the same bed (although very little physical contact certainly no sex). The initial routine was a bit tense, but manageable.
Since then (it has been about 85 days), things have only gone downhill. Early on, I did all the things you might expect out of ignorance. I tried to “fix” things, make her talk about her feelings. Although some of the conversations were not bad, in general, it made her angry. I got a litany of everything I had done wrong for years (not anything recent beyond leaving to go South). At that time I was still telling her that I loved her and trying to be affectionate. After just a little bit of research, I realized that was the wrong thing to do. That stopped immediately.
I tried to do as much research as I could. At first I thought it was just a marital problem, but I quickly began question if she might be in MLC. For example, she cannot tell me why she is unhappy or even what I am doing wrong. It is clear that right she is completely focused on herself. She does very little around the house. She will still chase the kids around, even take them to a movie or something, but interacts with them very little. She tries to get out of the house as much as she can. When she is out, she is gone for many, many hours at a time and will never say what time she is coming home, very often it is well past midnight. When she is home, she is either alone in her den or on the computer. She is NEVER without her phone and almost anytime I see her, she is texting. She is irritable and frankly, miserable most of the time. She sleeps very little. Sometimes it seems like there are little improvements, like she will seek me out to chat about the kids or whatever, and sometimes it seems she goes out of her way to avoid me.
Not long after I got back from the Southeast, I had enough of the texting to the high school friend. I just got angry one day when I realized she was sending him pictures of my kids. So I called the guy. He swore up and down that they are only friends, said they mostly talk about their kids. He has been married 20 years as well and has three. I know for a fact that he called my W right after I got off the phone with him. I braced for the storm. Took her two days, but when we had the fight, we had it. She said she was only a whisker from walking out the door. She said under no certain terms that she was not seeing him in any way (EA or PA) and that he did not even know about our marital problems. She claims she never remembers saying that she talked to him about our marriage. At that time, I promised that I would stop surveying her and I did. Don’t get me wrong, I was not convinced that nothing happened (still am not), but I had made my point and I had clearly shook the guy up. Plus my rationale was if we stayed together, we would deal with anything she had done then, if not, it did not really matter. I must admit that it has been better for me to not spy on her. Any day that I would check the phone records, emails, whatever, I could not focus for the rest of the day.
When she said we should go to therapy, I started mine right away, it took me a month and a half to get her into therapy. We have not yet started couples. That said, I am not allowed to ask how her therapy is going. One day I just asked if she liked her therapist and how she thought things were going, she said that if I ask her about her therapy, it will only keep her from being completely candid with her therapist.
So, for the last, oh, seven weeks or so I have just tried to give her as much space as possible. I do not phone or contact her unless she contacts me first. I have tried to focus on myself and my kids. I try to make sure I spend as much time with them as I can and make sure I tuck them in each night (well, not the 16 and 19 years :)) I do most of the housework, but not because I am trying to make it easy for her, just to make sure it gets done. I came home from a business trip a couple of weeks ago and it looked like a tornado hit the inside of my house.
When we do talk, I try to be upbeat and friendly, I avoid talking about the situation beyond asking her how she is doing (which is tough not to do because she always seems so miserable). I do sometimes slip, I will tell her that I miss her and that I am worried about her. About every two or three weeks, I ask her to go out somewhere with me. I have asked three times so far, she has accepted twice. The first time was for a drink, and did seem quite awkward. The second time, just this last weekend, we went to breakfast and it was much better. She seemed quite relaxed and the conversation came freely. We did not talk about the current situation, but about the kids, the upcoming school year, etc. Afterward she said that she enjoyed it.
I have tried to “detach” as much as possible. Sometimes I think I am successful, other times not so much. All that said, it seems to have gone from bad to worse. She now seems very uncomfortable around me. She has taken to shutting all doors behind her and making sure I do not see her change or in the shower (something that she never avoided before). She has taking to sleeping on the couch. We now go several days at a time without talking at all. Most recently, she got to go to a concert of a country music artist that she is absolutely nuts about, to the point of distraction! She went with some female friends and had a great time. But she went on and on about how she got to kiss him after the show and how he signed her shirt that she bought that said “The next Mrs. <artist name>”. I’m trying not to read too much into this, but it was pretty hurtful.
So this is about where I am. I realize that writing out this long story is a bit self-indulgent, so if you are still reading I am grateful.
I get that if my wife is in MLC I need to detach. I get that I can’t fix it, but I can make it worse. I understand that it is a long, uncertain ride. But a little guidance would be most appreciated.
1) Should I avoid talking to her altogether unless she starts a conversation? I mean, we live in the same house, we are going to pass by each other.
2) I realize it is probably a mistake to ask her out, but she has accepted and that has gotten somewhat better. Should I stop that?
3) I realize that “forcing” her to talk about things has resulted in anger. However, in the times that I have asked for a conversation, she has, despite the show of anger, commented that she comes out of those feeling better. I have not tried that in many weeks, should I give up on that? Especially in view of the fact that now she does not want to even talk about her therapy?
One of the largest questions on my mind is that if I leave contact to her, we many go a very long time with talking or anything, it is just tough to image that such a thing could lead to anything except more separation. Any thoughts most appreciated.
Anyway, once again, glad I found this. Look forward to your comments!
--refusetolosehope
Hello, Refuse to Lose Hope.
Your woman is getting ready to bolt; the signals are all there. (I recognized a LOT of my now-ex-wife in your post.) I’ll write you a longer response later, but I wanted to answer your three questions.
- Stick to ‘business’ when talking to your wife. No chit chat. Just keep it to the kids and finances.
- Stop taking her out. She’s cake-eating, and easing her guilt – and confusing you. This doesn’t sound like a woman I’d like to spend time with, in any event. At the very least, she’s engaged in a highly inappropriate ‘friendship’ with at least one old boyfriend from high school. Believe me, I know what the manic texting signals, and it is NOT GOOD. Text messaging is the favored method of adulteress courtship in America, so it seems. It makes no noise (unlike a phone call) and can be done anywhere. My ex used to text her boyfriend (prior to my confirming the affair) while I thought she was laying in bed, watching television. With her back to me, I had no idea she had the cell phone nestled down around her stomach, out of sight. They may well be scheming to take this relationship to a physical level. (I’d contact the guy’s wife and let her know what’s going on.) Your wife is hostile, secretive, cold, arrogant and highly emotional. Not good! And certainly not worthy of reward!
- Stop querying her about her mental state. You’re not going to hear anything positive, and you’ll wind up driving her further away. At this point, your wife doesn’t know anything except that she’s unhappy and wants to run away.
Be careful! Protect yourself and your kids. You are not alone, man. More to follow.
Basil Duke
Moderator
St. Louis, MO
WoW...I missed another new poster...I am sooo sorry, refusetolose!
Basil has given you some good advice to go on.
Everything you wrote screams woman in an EA..maybe a PA...with the possibility of bolting. The one thing that is keeping her at home is the fact that her OM is also married. Unless OM leaves his wife...then your W will probably stay put unless you force the issue. You MUST keep tabs on this...the texting, computer history AND her where abouts...if she is meeting with this guy.
Protect yourself and your children is exactly right. This is what you are doing when you check up on her.
No more date nights or breakfast dates...you are still suspicious that something is going on with the old HS flame.
Stop trying to talk her through this thing...it is just going to make her angry. She will think you are trying to control her by fixing things for her. BUT at the same time let her know what will happen IF you find out certain things...like if there is an OM...that it was this guy...or ANY guy. Tell her that if you find out that it is more than friends in any way...that for her to stay in your home, she will have to end it immediately. NO CONTACT! GO in to individual counseling immediately AND you will have open access to all cell phones, computer or texting accounts that she owns. No secrets, lies or betrayal!
IF she can't maintain the NO Contact rule...then she must leave the house until she can get her act together, get rid of the OM and get major counseling done AND the children will NOT be leaving with her AND you will not be supporting her stay away from the house. Also, you will be contacting the OM's wife and letting her know what her husband is doing with your wife...the OM's wife is always the last to know...but she is also seeing and feeling the same things you are...she is suspicious also...only do this if absolutely necessary. If you feel you should call the OM and warn him prior to your doing it...then do so...let him tell his wife...you are just forcing the issue. Many times the OM dumps your wife because he wants to save his stupid a$$...it is the single guys that you can't scare...they just don't care...they are single. They like the all the drama and intrigue that is around these sorts of things. They are only sticking around until they get tired of the fling anyways. Cougars are in, ya know! But this isn't your problem...
Get your finances in order...Get a lawyer and find out what your rights are in your state. Knowledge is strength and power, when things start getting difficult. You don't have to put anything in motion...just get information...the other guys will tell you that this has helped them become detached...because they know what they can and can not do in their situations...so they are not throwing idle threats at their wives...they know they can do it...in fact, many of the consecquences can drop immediately. Your kid's will be grateful one day that you did this prior strategy. If you don't need it...you don't need it!
Stop pushing her to talk to you about things that she doesn't even know or understand yet...she probably doesn't even realize that she is in MLC...and if she does...she'd deny it! Most women do at first.
A lot could have happened in 8 days...do you have an up-date? Has this helped at all...please keep reading here at the forum...it is full information that can help you. Those who have studied the articles and threads are the one's who learn the most and find it easier to detach and act with a confidence that they thought they never would be able to gather together.
Please ask questions,vent...get encouragement. we are here for you!
Sorry I was so late in responding to you.
Shepherdess
Shepherdess, Basil,
Thank you for the responses, some good advice. Although the first couple of times of asking her how she was going proved useful, that has not been the case for some time. I will stop that immediately. As for the dates, I agree. I will stop those as well until I have much greater confidence that there is no OM.
To that end I am struggling a bit. After I called the OM (I going to call him that even if there is no EA or PA, since clearly he is a significant person in her life) and we had a fight over that, I promised not to “spy” on her anymore and I have not. In short of that, there are really no obvious indications that anything is happening. In fact, if there is something, it is probably an EA, as based on her schedule (she is either at home or with the kids most of the times) she probably does not have time, although certainly I know nothing for sure. She does go out with her female friends quite a bit (especially on the weekend), but most of the time there is a clear indication that she was with them (such as them picking her up). Her friends may be enabling her, but hard to imagine, my wife is petrified of what people think (a peace maker, middle child) and many of these friends are relatively new. Anyway, I have not noticed any significant changes in my wife’s appearance, mannerisms, new clothes, etc that might indicate spending significant time with an OM. So I struggle with whether I should do anything more in depth, especially since I already said that I would not.
As for updates, there are always things that happen, it is just difficult for me to determine if these have any significance or are just “in the noise”. On the up side, since school has started, my wife has been much more attentive to the kids. She is up before they are in the morning, making sure they have breakfast and making their lunch. She is currently delaying her trips to the gym or track until after the bus comes, something she was not doing at the end of school last year. She also had a job interview last week, it put her in such a good mood that I found myself in a decent mood. I should mention that she has been a stay at home mom for the last fifteen years. Our finances are not great and I have been after her to try to get a job for some time. She was clearly pleased by her own initiative and frankly, I was too.
On the down side, we were talking about something the other day, don’t even remember what it was, and out of nowhere came some real venom. She blamed me for our financial situation and said that now this was one more hurtle she had to overcome. Even though I had not mentioned her therapy for weeks (since one of our “dates”), she said again that she was angry that I had asked if she was “moving forward”. She stated this is not how it worked, that her therapy was “not all about you” (meaning me). Anyway, I was kind of taken off guard by all of this.
On the “have no idea what it means” side, it is a typical cycle. Sometimes she seems quite comfortable around me and will want to chat quite a bit, even if it means seeking me out. This can happen more than once a day. She may smile, laugh, joke, etc. Then there will be times she is clearly is avoiding me altogether. Although she admits to this, she still seeks to get out of the house as much as possible and gets grumpy when she cannot. Although perhaps slightly less lately, she still spends much of her time in the house by herself (in her TV den), or on the computer and ALWAYS with her phone, constantly texting.
I do not know if she would admit to being in MLC, although she gets angry when I mention it, she admits that she has several issues to deal with, and, as she says, not all of them surrounding me. She has been in therapy once a week for the past 8 weeks, I am hoping it helps. She told me today that her therapist has now moved her to once every other week. I thought that odd since no real progress is being made (that I know of), but I do not experience in these areas.
Bottom line for now is that I really appreciate the advice and will take most of it. I will start looking around for a lawyer. You are correct, information and a plan is a good thing. If I find for certain that there is an OM (EA or PA), I certainly will execute that advice as well, in fact I always intended something similar. Lastly I will keep reading, the stories can be quite inspirational! For example, I never fail to be impressed by MLBHOME’s courage, strength and determination, I hope to be that strong!
Once again, my many thanks.
-refusetolosehope
Okay, Refuse to Lose Hope, one thing right up front: You have EVERY right and reason in the world to 'spy' on your wife. Your entire way of life is at stake, here. The reason why your spouse is so angry at your "snooping" is because she's hiding something. You're on to her disgusting little game. I would absolutely love it if I were a cheating husband, and was able to hector and badger my suspicious wife into promising not to inquire into my social life. I mean, she's the last person in the world I'd want digging into my phone and email history.
Keep gathering information. But keep it to yourself. Do NOT tell your wife what you're doing or what you know. Save that for the lawyer. I promise you: you're shooting yourself in the head if you actually carry out your promise to not "spy" on your wife and her boyfriend. Come on, man, where's your self-preservation instinct? You need to take the bunny ears off and find your Viking helmet. Start kicking some butt.
And you're just being naive if you think your wife's female friends are going to prevent her from trolling for a new man. Hell, that's what the entire lot of 'em are up to when they go out. You say they're relatively new to her. Well, guess what, buddy - she likely recruited them for the very reason that they'll keep her secret. Women run in packs, too. They feed off each other, and give one another the emotional support and prodding necessary to do their cougar thing. A woman in crisis will ditch anybody who might throw up a moral 'stop' sign. She wants no one around her who's going to pour vinegar in the adultery punch bowl. My own ex-wife had three sows who made sure she carried through with her affair and then divorced me. View your wife's new friends as an enemy tribe, out to your way of life to the torch. They are ANYthing but your friend, believe me. They've heard the history rewrite from your wife, and all of 'em consider you sub-human - someone who deserves to be cheated on and divorced. That's how women operate in these circumstances. So be careful.
Basil Duke
Moderator
St. Louis, MO
thanks for the supportive comments on courage. It all stems from protecting the kids, Shep, and BasilDuke. Plus I have been burned on the " I won't be spied on" lecture from my W the first time she came back. So I didn't. 5 weeks later she's leaving again because she has been e-mailing "I love you, I want to spend my life with you, I want a divorce" to the OM under a supposed NC. So, be a spy.
If she's defensive, she's hiding something. 100%.
If she is texting like crazy.....thats another sign. Spending time away in another part of the house, another sign.
Remember lying is the MLC credo. Believe nothing, assume everything,
MLBHOME
Your last post reminded me of something, MLB Home. Back when my nightmare first began to unravel, my (now-ex) wife repeatedly and passionality insisted that she and her boyfriend loved each other, that they were soul mates, that they had a connection unlike any other, that she'd tried all summer NOT to fall in love with him but it was hopeless, etc. and et al. She actually told me that she would be smitten with this idiot for the rest of her life. (That was one of the reasons she gave for refusing to reconcile.) A couple of weeks ago, the subject of her imbicile (now-ex) lover came up in a manner that allowed me to make a comment about him without having to force the issue. I simply remarked: "Well, I can't say I'm surprised you two are finished, but I expected it to last at least a little longer than it did, considering that you loved him."
To this, her head snapped up and she insisted: "I NEVER loved him! I NEVER fell in love with him! That's just not true!"
I can only assume that the boy toy played her for such a fool, and with such little regard for her as a human being, that she's now too ashamed to admit that she once thought she loved him. Either that, or she realizes how absurd her "love" was - considering she'd known the sleazebag for about two months before deciding he was the one for her. She possibly understands now what the fool symbolizes and what he engineered. More history rewriting, either way. But, brother, she was in 'luuuuvvvvvvvv" just a year ago. I wonder, in six months or so, if your own wife'll be denying her love for this jackhole she's with.
Something to look for.
Basil Duke
She said the same thing to me, the kids, her family, her co-workers. Same GD thing. They just hit off, they have great chemistry, great conversations, so much in common (she never could tell me one thing)
she couldn't help but fall in love, she had denied her feelings for sooooo long that now she was going to follow her heart,. In an email she sent him, "I want a divorce, I love you, and want to spend the rest of my life with you......barfff!!
Yep I'm sure somewhere dwn the road when the wheels of the "DreamBoat" machine come off, I'll hear denials like I've never heard before.
Viking Horns??!! I love that one!!!
MLBHOME
Maybe some of these sound familiar:
"I've opened my heart to him, and I can't just close it. It's gone too far. My heart isn't here anymore; it's with him."
My ex-wife also tried to explain/excuse herself by time-traveling back to the mid'80s, when some scumbag was sniffing around her in college - after I'd graduated and moved four hours away. "Todd loved me! Loved me! But I wouldn't give myself to him because I was faithful to you! But I can't let that happen again! I can't live with another 'what if?'"
There's no arguing with that. No possible way. When she started talking this nonsense, I knew I was in big trouble.
I got the "what if" also. What if I don't see this thru then I'll never now. I told "what if I never get to the moon, then I'll never know".....
so ridiculous.
MLB
That's it! My ex DID say "I have to see what this is like, because if I don't, I'll never know. And I can't NOT know, not again. I have to go through with it."
Thanks for jogging my memory. The more distance I put between me and that awful morning back in early October, the more I realize that as painful as it's been, I'm better off away from her BS drama and adolescent arrogance and selfishness. Like I've said before, "talking" to my ex was like picking out some random teenaged girl at the mall and picking a verbal fight with her.
It's quite sad to see her interact with our almost 14-year-old son. Emotionally, they're peers, and I actually have had to physically step in between them - when they were bickering and sniping at one another - and say, "Enough out of both of you." And they listen! It's almost like I'm the father of two teens - one of whom happens to be my 43-year-old ex-wife in the early stages of menopause.
You have convinced me. I have started to take a look. The computer is clean, as it has been before. Some posts on Facebook that are a bit flirtatious, both nothing directed at any individual. Bottom line is, I don't think she is using the computer. Makes sense, I get the feeling she knows that it is not really secure (I have her passwords, etc). But then, why should she, she has the texting.
That is a bit more of a problem. Both the phone and the service that she uses make it very difficult to monitor. I have been looking to view her phone when she is without it, but that is rare. Plus, she is good about erasing the texts every day. Will keep looking, but fresh out of ideas.
In the meantime, not much happening. She has her ups and downs, sometimes she is fine and others quite grumpy. Still no noise about leaving or asking me to, keeping my fingers crossed!!!
As always, certainly appreciate your comments and advice!
-refusetolosehope
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