Not sure what to do...

Foolinlove

All the advice I have read on this and many other sites tell you to set boundries!  You have to insist that your W stops ANY and ALL contact, phone, email texting etc ALL CONTACT with this EA with this OM.  EA is an emotional affair that you yourself state if he should come out to visit family could turn into a PA, physical affair.  Sorry you are in this situation but please continue to write and READ on forums you will recieve some great advice and also you will be contributing some advice to others in this "TIME OF NEED". 

Peace my friends

Foolinlove,

Noidea is 100% correct. You must set boundries w/ associated consequences. The NO CONTACT rule is the first one, and tell her you will be checking to enforce it till she can earn your trust back.

As Shepherdess would say, "she is married, a wife and a mother, not a teenager". ( I think I got that right). Plus if you set the boundries with the consequences you must be prepared to follow thru with the consequences, such as continued contact means your out of the house, loss of cell phone , whatever. You have to be mentally prepared to do that.

Also protect yourself and the kids, keep them and yourself the first priority. Look at your finances, get control of the accounts and credit cards. Don't think that " ah she'll never do that", in this state of mind that she is in, you must prepare for anything and everything.

Read thru the threads here, mine (MLBHOME) and noidea's. Read the responses and you will begin to see the pattern the W's take and the need responses form the H's. Read thru SBreeze1 and you can understand some from the W point of view, her posts are very informative.

We all are here to help you and one another, keep posting, help is here

MLBHOME

So she got a tattoo a few days ago.  It's something she has wanted since she was a teenager.  We met with the artist last summer but things never worked out to get it done.  Back then she came up with a design for part of it that incorporated my and our sons first initials into a design.  The day of the tattoo she told me she was going to put my letter on it.  She put something that represented her dad and all the other things she cares about.  Our sons don't know what's going on with us, but they noticed that she left me out and asked her why...she blew them off and changed the subject.

She hadn't said she loved me for almost a month, but after her tattoo she has said it a few times and seems to be pretty happy.  She hasn't had any contact with the OM in almost a week.  Yesterday she got her belly button pierced, again something she has wanted for a long time.  Last night she said "I love you" when we were going to bed.  I'm not sure if this is just being spurred on by the euphoria of what she's had done or whether my giving her space has helped.

I'm not saying everything is all better.  I've just noticed a little change for the better.  She said last night that she's glad she got it all done and that she's not going to wait for things she wants anymore.  I asked her what she meant by that, cause the way she said it seemed to have a hidden meaning, and she just blew it off and didn't answer.

I'm just waiting for the next wave...

If I read this right - she is 30? Has been drawn off from "marriage" and having inappropriate relationships with 2 Men in the past 2 years?
 
Mid-Life Crisis - probably not: identity crisis, loose morals, too much of society's "if it feels good do it" and her believing it...................or a combination of all 3? She needs some serious counseling and serious growing up.
 
One must question why her wandering eye/thoughts...............and how many more times this is going to happen before it's more then just computer chats - IF it hasn't been more then that already. And how many more "mistakes" are you going to stand by and let happen before you put your foot down and let her know - next time don't let the door hit you on the way out.
 
You mention your "strict" religion a couple times, but not what it is.................why?

I bet that the OM is NOT gone...they have gone dark!!!

Euphoria IS NOT the response you should be seeing...comments like she is not going to wait for things any more is not one of a woman who has ended an affair.  Your gut is right...there was hidden meaning behind this statement.  When the OM is indeed gone, a women gets very sad, depressed...grieves the ending of relationship.  She doesn't go out and get a tattoo and a piercing...this is continued teenage behavior.  Even if the old OM is gone...she may be looking for another...but probably not. 

Stop waiting for the next wave...be prepared for the next wave OR cut the next wave off at the pass.  Set the boundaries and the deal breakers...be prepared to follow through if you find out that the OM is not gone or that there is another.  Any behavior that is out of the ordinary should be questioned...Are you still looking computer history, phone...etc.  A week with No Contact is not long enough...her reaction is not normal. 

This still sounds like teenage behavior...not an improvement for the better.  Keep looking for clues.

Shepherdess

onholdaz, you're right, it is a combination of the three.  She is at the point where she wants to experience the life of a single 20 something that she missed out on.  She is just afraid to let go of the best thing that has happened to her and then regret it down the road.  btw, I was raised as a Jehovah's Witness and she was raised around it and became one when she got pregnant.

sheperdess, you were right.  When I got home yesterday I found she had chatted with him for quite a while and there had been talk of sex and him coming back here for a "visit".  We were planning on going hiking so I waited until then to talk to her so she wouldn't have an escape.

I told her that if she truly wanted to save our marriage and if she cared for and respected me, she would cut off all contact with OM.  We had a very emotional discussion about where she is and what she wants.  It's not about the OM or any man, she just wants to be able to live an independant life but again is scared that years down the road she'll regret it.  She is also afraid that if she stays, she'll regret that.  After much heated talking about the EA, she still doesn't think what she's doing is wrong.  I told her it doesn't matter what she thinks, if I think it's an affair then if she cared about me she'd apologize and cut it off.  She agreed to cut it off right away and swears that it won't happen again.  She also said that she'd never have a PA.

I asked her what she needed from me and she said she needs things between us to be normal because she can't live with constant turmoil in our relationship.  So I will continue to show her affection and she'll reciprocate but if she feels like she needs space she'll let me know and I'll back off, but it will be up to her to initiate things once she is feeling better.  She said she can't change the way she feels and I told her that is bs because she's expecting me to change the way I feel.

Things ended on a good note, but with much tears on both our parts.  I don't know where this is going to lead, but I've got to try.  I may have made a mistake somewhere, but I did what I needed to do.  We'll see how things go.

Beware, Fool in Love! Your wife's 'promise" that she won't have sex with this miserable SOB cannot be believed. It simply can't. Do NOT fool yourself that she's 'only' going to continue the so-called emotional affair. (I hate that term, and think it's grossly over-used - either by a cheating spouse who's trying to do damage control or by a betrayed spouse who can't bring himself to admit that his wife's fornicating with another man.)

In any event, your particular bride has probably been emotionally building up to full-fledged sex for a long time. In my layman's experience, and through the amateur research I did on the subject after my wife ran off with a college turd, most women have to give themselves permission to commit adultery. They walk themselves through a variety of emotionally chaotic steps before they decide that they're "allowed" to cheat. This is the "running silent" phase, in my opinion. At the very moment that you, the husband, is thinking everything's fantastic because your wife isn't complaining or nagging, she's actually closed down mentally and is getting ready to nuke your butt out of your house.

And once a woman crosses that last barrier - it's over. She's going to do exactly whatever it is she wants to do. And in close to 100 percent of the time, that means fornicating with the other man. "I owe this to myself!" she's saying to herself. "I've suffered so much, I deserve to be happy!"

What it comes down to, in many cases, is that the woman realizes she's aging and losing her sexual powers, she panics and decides that she MUST wield them while she still can. And in most cases, she wields them with the ruthlessness of Stalin on a week-long vodka bender. That's why so many MLC women obsess with bedding much younger men; it gives them a sense of vitality. They fool themselves into thinking that laying with a punk can stop their body's clock from ticking. In reality, they've discovered hell's own Fountain of Youth. (Please note that Shepherdess and others here strongly disagree with the theory that sexual desire is the primary driving force behind most MLC women's stampede off the reservation. It is my conjecture and mine alone.) 

I'd bet big money your wife has been filling the other 'man' full of wonderful carnal images of the things they'll be doing in bed once she makes the final break. That's her way of keeping the piece of crap on the hook. (I mean, really, how many men are going to get involved with a married woman and NOT expect to have sex with her? She's doing something to keep him around - and it most definitely does not involve the sharing of bunt cake recipes or a particularly cute scrapbooking idea.) This woman is getting to run on you, man. Get ready. And don't believe a damned thing she says.

Basil Duke
Moderator
St. Louis, MO 

You're right.  She has been telling him what she will do, likes, wants to try, and stringing him along that when he comes here he's going to get it.  She looked me in the eyes last night and said "I will never cheat on you".  But like I told her, she already is and she doesn't think so.  I'm not naive, I know it's a matter of time, but I'm hoping something will change.  Trust me though, I am preparing for the worst.

I really don't think this is about sex for her though.  This is just a symptom of her identity crisis.

FIL,
 A few things that I think will help you both going forward:

#1 - She writes the No Contact letter to OM, YOU read it - YOU put it in the mail to him. SHE needs to explain that she was just leading him on and had no intentions of actually doing anything with him. That YOU know what has happened - and if he is married and contacts your W again, YOU will contact his W.

#2 - SHE must be transparent to earn your trust back. YOU get access to ALL cell phone records - text messages, voice mails, call logs & ALL internet account passwords.  

#3 - Buy  'NOT Just Friends' by Dr. Shirley Glass. BOTH of you read a chapter each week and have a "private" time to discuss it - dinner, lunch, etc. Make it sort of a date - get baby sitters, etc.

#4 - Get a good Marriage Counsilor - ask for references (sometimes your clergy will have a list - but since she has issues with your religion, I would not make it with them) and interview a few - make sure they are pro-marriage and not "do what makes you feel good" councilors.

#5 - Look up "Weekend to Remember" marriage conferences, Schedule one - they are usually at cut rates at really nice resorts......................it's information + a weekend get away.

Thanks all for your advice but I don't think anything will work.  Last night I told her to let me know when she had cut it off with OM and deleted him from her Facebook page and she said she won't delete him.  She still won't admit that her EA is even an issue.  She thinks I'm too focused on it and that I don't see the real issue.

I told her I do understand what she's going thru, but that the EA is clouding her judgement and the fact is if it bothers me she should be willing to end it if she really wants to make things work.  We had the worst fight yet and she started packing to leave me saying she was taking the kids with her.  We have shielded them from our arguments to this point so I didn't want them to get blind sided so I calmed her down.

They heard us fighting and thought we were fighting about them so I went and talked to them and told them that they are not the cause and that we are having a hard time and things aren't going well.  At least now they know and if things continue going down hill it won't be as much of a shock to them.

She and I ended up talking calmly later in the night and she told me that she will end it with him but won't remove him from her page.  She said that she needs her space and that I have hurt her because I'm not giving her space and trying to control her.  I told her I'm trying to detach emotionally from her so that when she decides to leave it won't hurt as bad.  She said she doesn't want me to detach completely.  Basically, she wants me to hang around and be her plan B if she can't figure out what she really wants.

At this point, I don't care I just want to make sure the kids are ok and her taking them will not be the best thing for them.  We live 1/2 mile from her Dad's and his wife of 25years doesn't work so she could watch the boys before and after school till I get home so they could stay in the school they have grown up in and stay in the only house they have ever known.  If she took them she would move in with her Mom and her husband 50 miles away into a house where both people work and she would have to work or go to school so they'd be in a new school and daycare which they have never experienced.  I'm a wreck, I only sleep a couple hours a night and I've lost 12lbs in the last month don't really have much more I can loose.

I can't think anymore.  Thanks for listening.

first you do what is best for YOU and the BOYS, not her.

Second if she is or has ended it with the OM she doesn't need him on the facebook page

You DETACH now, completely, and stop being her safety net.

You set the boundaries, and if she can't accept them and she packs to leave again, let her go, hold the door open for her, but the boys stay in the house for all the reasons you just listed.

As Shepherdess has told me several times, if she leaves, it is HER that is ABANDONING you (the marriage) and the boys, your first priority is to protect them from her.

Now for you I was where you were physicaly and mentally in June. It is the hardest thing so far in my life. I lost 17#, no eating no sleeping, severe depression. My kids helped me a ton, talking and encouraging me. I also went to counseling and my MD to change my anti-depression meds, ( I suffer from bouts of depression as it is) because I HAD to function for the kids, myself, my job, and to battle the evil that has taken over my wife. Do what you have to to get yourself to the level of taking on this fight. You have no choice now. She has you dwn on one knee, and the boys are yelling at you to get up!!  Take 8 of the 10 count to re-group, organize and go on the offensive.
      Sleep wherever you fall asleep. If it's the couch, chair, floor wherever sleep there. The important part is that your sleeping. Eat right, good foods, not garbage. Get out of the house. Take a walk, work out, visit a friend, go for a drive. Me I tried to keep up my work out routine and watch old war movies.
      Another great help is making the time to be alone in a quiet place for 10-15 minutes a day just to be still. You don't have to leg cross and hum, but allow youself to go over your thoughts in this environment. Go over in your mind what is happening, formulate a plan, OR just think about nothing.

The battle has been thrust upon you, I know you don't want to fight it, niether do I but it's here.

MLBHOME

Hello, Fool in Love.
 
Your wife is trying to do the Jedi mind control thing on you. When she snarls "You're trying to control me and you need to back off," you're supposed to say, "I'm trying to control you, and I'm going to back off." And when she says, "I don't want you to completely forget about me, because things might not work out with my boyfriend and me," that's your cue to say, "I'm not going to completely forget about you. Call me if your boyfriend dumps you and I'll take you back."

Get with the program, Master Luke.

But seriously, your wife isn't giving you anything but a noxious cloud of MLC BS. I'm glad -bittersweetly glad - that you're conditioning yourself for her to hit the ejection button, because what I'm hearing you describe in your threads is a woman in La-La Land. To me, the fact that she won't delete the scum as a Facebook friend is all you need to know. Reverse the situation: if you were having an affair with a woman and you feigned a mea culpa after your wife found out, how long would she tolerate the presence of the other woman as a "friend" on your Facebook page? Maybe three seconds, tops. And why would you want to keep your affair partner around, even "only" on the computer? To maintain contact with her and to keep the embers glowing for a resurgence of the original affair bonfire!
 
Your wife is completely full of crap, and I think you know it. You're not giving her space! You're trying to control her! Pure bunk, my man - bunk which I heard from my own soon-to-be-ex wife as she was preparing to fornicate with the college turd. What kind of space is it, exactly, that she desires? It's simple; she wants to be left alone so she can have/continue an affair. Period. She wants you gone. Or she wants to be gone herself. Doesn't matter because either one will suit her needs.

Sorry to lay it out like this, but I'm getting so weary of this monstrous, maddening and horrifically destructive behavior. Although I realize that we're actually a self-selecting group here, sometimes I think the whole world has gone mad, and that every women in it has one goal: to destroy her family as painfully as possible - and to get as many awesome tattoos and sassy genital piercings as she can in the process.

Are we mad, Fool in Love?

Basil Duke
St. Louis, MO
Moderator at large   

Thanks guys.  You are just reinforcing what I already know.  Basil, I loved how you didn't hold anything back.  She continues to say the affair is nothing.  I told her to look me in the eyes and tell me that she doesn't talk sex with him and she changes the subject and explodes on me.

This started with her being confused and the affair has made it more.  She still doesn't think it's an affair and that's the problem.  Right now, I'm content to keep things how they are.  I'll continue to pull away and wall her off.  Our sitch is such that us staying in the house and playing nice is what's best for the kids so that's what I'll do.

If she comes to her senses down the road, and I am even partly open to it, it will be up to her to win me back.  I want her to come on here and tell her story and how she's feeling so she can get some tough love from you all, but I doubt she will and if she does and sees my posts, it would just make things worse.  It still amazes me how quickly we've come to this point.  We're that couple that all of our friends look up to because we have such a great relationship...and we did.  Now it's just about dead in the course of 1 month.

Thanks again everyone.  I'll keep you posted.

Fool in Love, I strongly suggest that you keep your wife away from this forum. For one thing, she's going to see your game plan. Huge mistake! Never let the enemy into your war room. I'm very serious about this; you do NOT want her to read what you've written and what we've written TO you.

Secondly, there is about a zero percent chance that anything we could say to her would have any positive effect. To the contrary, it would aggravate her - enrage her, and turn her further away. Think about how angry she got when you simply asked her to look you in the eyes and say "I'm not talking about sex with him." I've seen a few women wander through here on the verge of destroying their families - ostensibly looking for advice but in reality seeking permission to hit eject. Invariably, they almost immediately bolt in a sputtering rage when they're told in no uncertain terms (by posters) that they're making an awful mistake. I can't imagine that your wife will be any different.

Good luck and keep posting.

Basil Duke
St. Louis, MO
Moderator

FIL:

All of these guys have given you great direction....I must add: 

You need to get legal advice on what you can and cannot do in your situation.  By sitting back and letting her continue to keep the OM on her Facebook is just begging for more trouble, if indeed she has cut it off with him.   I have deleted Facebook Friends that My husband has thought were being a bit too forward in their comments...I do this because I must keep on earning his trust...I have come too far AND this is what people do when they are married...it is NOT okay for her to keep him on her friendship list....no matter what she wants to call the relationship...an affair or a flirtation...in either case, it is something that a married woman with children doesn't do....the man IS the Other Man in her life no matter what degree they have gone and especially if they discuss sex.!!! By ignoring the fact that she still has him there just to keep peace for the children...well, you aren't doing your children any favors here. She WILL continue the relationship OR find another...many of these relationshiops go dark and resurface as Physical Affairs where they end up meeting. 
 
DON'T let her threaten you with taking your children.  The come back on this one IS..."Excuse me but the children are going nowhere if you continue this "Flirtation/Affair"...YOU (your wife) are betraying them also." The threats are a way of keeping you in her control...it pushes your buttons...you roll over and submit to her desires....NOPE...NOPE...NOPE.  She manipulating and projecting her own emotions on to you. Don't allow it!  This is enabling her behavior...she will take more risks thinking that she can get away with it.  YUP, believe it...she will!  

Whatever you do, don't move out of the bedroom, your house or fall for any manipulations for YOU to leave.  SHE leaves if she wants the M/R over or refuses to end the relationship. This is the next stage, you know, if you go the way that you have discribed...pretending that all is well for the kids sake, while she refuses to delete this guy from her FB list. NO CONTACT means NO CONTACT or connection of any kind.  She does this for you and the kids!  If she still can't or won't delete it, tell her that it is either him or you and the kids.  YOU and the KIDS are the team now...DO NOT LET HER TAKE YOUR KIDS, if you can help it.

Again, Legal advice is what you need...on what your rights are as a father in your state.  Don't throw out the doormat for her to walk on...because as history has told me and many others here...she will walk all over you if you allow her to.  Read through the above posts again...the advice is priceless...go and read the Detachment threads...you will need them...and tuck those children up under your wing and protect them from what their mother might do....Don't leave them with her and don't let her take them with her anywhere...if she leaves she leaves alone. Your kids are the innocent ones here...you are not the one having a the problems...you are not teh one who is talking to another person about sex on the internet (switch your wording from Emotional Affair to Internet Affair)...SHE IS!!

Shepherdess

Thank you.  I will.  She told me she cut it off today and was completely pissed to the point where she wouldn't talk or look at me.  Then she went out for "girls night" with some friends.  I checked and she did tell him that I don't want her talking to him anymore and that I wanted her to delete him as a friend.  She even told him that she doesn't understand why it's so hard for her to stop talking to him but it pisses her off that I'm making her.
 
She told him she'll keep him on as a friend but not to contact her and if things go south with me and her, she'd send him a message.  Just the fact that she did that is a start...we'll see where things go.  For now, we are hanging on by a thread and I am going to find out what legal rights I have.
 
I sleep in our bedroom and she sleeps on the couch.  I will not move out of this house and I will do everything I can to keep the kids.  The next couple weeks will tell me where this is going to lead.
 
Thanks everyone.

I hate to keep throwing negative stuff at you, Fool in Love, but you need to hear it. "Girls Night Out" for a woman in your wife's mental condition is really code for "I'm gonna use myself as bait and see what I can reel in" or "I'm meeting the other man." I guarantee you, she selected her group of fellow partiers very carefully; there won't be a happily married woman in the bunch. At least one or two of 'em will hate men - and they'll be whispering in your spouse's ear all night - and tomorrow, and the next day and the day after that. "Your husband doesn't deserve you! You've done so much for him, and where's the thanks? You need to start doing for yourself for once! And don't worry about your children; they'll adjust. Kids are very resilient."

These sickening wenches are the adultery cheerleaders - and every woman in crisis has at least one of them. My soon to be ex had three - each of whom is going to roast in hell for all eternity for helping destroy my family and my son's mental well-being. Beware the "girlfriends." They are EEE VEE EYE ELL. When she goes out with them again, make sure you learn where they're ostensibly going to be drinking, and then make a furtive trip there to watch the gaggle from the shadows - to see what's up and who your wife is trying to have sex with.

Do you know anything about this so-called other 'man'? Is he married? If he is, you need to start playing some payback/hardball on the SOB. Out him to his wife, immediately! He is, almost certainly, a coward of the first order. These swine are the lowest, foulest example of human life on the planet. Really, they are. They're not even worth beating. Why get an infected hand (and go to jail) from punching out a bag of pus?

Carry on, man!

Basil Duke
St. Louis, MO
Moderator  

FIL,

Well, you have thrown down the gauntlet, it was something you had to do. You have drawn the line, formulate a plan for if she crosses it. I'm not surprised she's angry, my W was/is too.

Remember, you and your boys are the priority. Take care of you, and them, keep posting

MLBHOME