Sad about living without
I have felt like I am in some stage of MLC for quite some time now. I want to write about something I am embarrassed to talk to anyone about. I am 51, married for 32 years, 3 grown children. My marriage has had its ups and downs, but seems to get better as time goes on. Sex is nonexistent, and previous to that, wasn't much good for many years. My husband says he is physically unable, no desire. He has seen his doctor about it and had testosterone level checked. He doesn't seem willing to do any more about it. I think it is more of a psychological than physiologic problem, and I think he feels the same. In any case, he's not willing to do anything about it, and I feel pretty hopeless about it. As I mentioned, even when he could physically perform, it wasn't that great. I feel like it would take a tremendous effort on both our parts and just not something we can do. This is where my question comes in: will my libido slowly go away at some point? I think I am perimenopausal, have hot flashes at nights, but still regular periods and it seems like my libido is increasing instead of decreasing. I have actually considered asking for an antidepressant that might have the side effect of decreasing my libido, therefore killing 2 birds with one stone. But I'm not really depressed and I think part of my MLC is that I grieve the lack of sexuality in my life. I regret that most of my life has been sexually unfulfilled. I was a horny teenager, but back in those days, good girls didn't "do it". I got married at 19, sex was good for a short time, and I guess long enough to produce 3 great kids, then nothing. Now I face the fact that I probably will never get any again, and it just breaks my heart. I feel like something that should have been a very special, important part of my life, is gone and going, and all I can do is watch it go by and be regretful. Grief over loss is a process; I feel like I'm grieving something that I've been losing for years with no end in sight. So at times I feel so desparate that I would like to take a pill to dull the desire, whereas at other times I feel like without the desire I might as well curl up and die.
I think I was more deeply into a MLC a few months ago, as a product of the above, plus changing jobs and therefore social networks, plus an abruptly empty nest. When the winter turned to spring, my mood improved and I don't feel hopeless anymore. But the above issue bothers me on a daily basis, and I don't know what to do about it. I would welcome insight or advice from others.
BTW, the thought of having an affair has crossed my mind once or twice, but I'm a good person that makes good choices and I'm not going down that road, although I think if the situation were right, I'd have a real tough time saying no. So I don't put myself in that kind of situation.
Hello, Dotsmom! Welcome. I'm sure The Shepherdess and some of the other good ladies here can speak to your specific issues far, far better than me - so I just wanted you to know that you've been heard.
I would also ask - most respectfully - our similarly good male members to tred gently here, and give this subject room to unfold and air out, free of tension.
Hang tough, Dotsmom. You'll find friends and wisdom here, I promise.
Basil Duke
Thanks for the welcome. It is a little weird, baring your soul to complete strangers. I haven't read everything on this site yet, chipping away at it, but it seems as though people are thoughtful and considerate. It's helpful just to put thoughts into words and put it out there for people who may have been in a similar place to give their perspective.
Dotsmom:
While reading your post all I could think about was what I have recently learned helping my son with his Sleep Apnea and Allergies. I know this may not seem like it has anything to do with your sexual desire and your husband's waning sexual libido...but it does.
Sleep Apnea and untreated allergies is the number one cause, other than hormone dysfunction to cause lowered sexual libido in Men and Women. Sleep apnea also increases the chances of heart attack, stroke and depression. This was all news to me until when my son (14) no longer could tolerate his ADHD medications...we went to the ENT doctor and the Neurologist, as I had been told years prior that he may have sleep apnea, which was causing sleep deprivation and ultimately ADHD symptoms. When we went to have his sleep study, we watched a documentary on Sleep Apnea and how it can cause various physical problems that are totally missed through other testing or bloodwork. I sat in amazement throughout this video, as I could also see how sleep apnea could also cause depression and low sexual libido at Mid-life in both men and women...something that many of the women were saying (even myself) were claiming as a symptom. This is why I added a trip to the Ear, Nose and throat doctor and Neurologist to my list of doctors and tests you need have done when you suspect MLC.
Another cause may be that your husband is sensitive to light or has SAD. I am extrememly sensitive to light and need to get out in the sun for at minimum of one hour a day OR sit in front of a Light therapy light.
Is there any medications that he is already on that have the side effect of lowered libido.?
Allergies to foods, mold, dust, pollen, animals and can also cause a dimished sexual libido as the system is continually releasing histimine in to the system....making a person feel cloudy, foggy, less energetic, grumpy, unable to sleep, and concentrate/focus. Allergy tessting is a good idea also.
I know this will not solve your present situation, at least not right away and it isn't the complete solution to your sexual problems...but it sure would help to have your husband's interest back, now wouldn't it?
I will come back with some links that you can go to to read up on Sleep Apnea and Allergies.
You husband may also be going through what Jed Diamond calls Male Menopause (Andropause)...a book that may help you and your husband understand what is going on with him. Surviving Male Menopause, written for both men and women to read on the subject.
I hope this has helped a tiny bit...and welcome...we are here for you, please feel free to discuss and be as open as you would like....there is no embarassment in asking and getting answers...possibilities...we are all here to learn. It is a part of strategy, the preparation, the solution...the strength and the comfort to get through these times in our lives.
Welcome...
Shepherdess
Shepherdess,
Thank you for the advice. My husband does not have sleep apnea. I know that it is more of a psychological problem than anything and I don't want to delve into all that. It's complex, and although I have shared my feelings here in front of strangers, I do not feel that I want to share his.
I read once in Dear Abby that marriage without sex is kind of like eating cake without frosting. It's okay, but not quite as good. I know that there are a lot of people out there in sexless marriages. My question is: how do I accept it and quit feeling sad about it? I know that everyone makes choices and no one gets everything they want. I should be content to have the life that I have. I am attracted to other men and have erotic dreams about men that are totally inappropriate (like my kids' friends). It makes me feel ashamed and I guess what bothers me the most is the feeling of not being able to control it. I guess I'm angry at some level also; I didn't sign up for a life of celibacy, but I'm not angry at my husband. He didn't sign up for this either, did he. Advice on how to help my husband's libido is not going to help this situation. I think at a very primal level, a woman wants to be desired and sought after. You can't make a man have desire for you. The harder you try, the less he has, and it is too painful to keep trying.
I will have a look at the books you suggest. I have used a lot of self help books for various things and find they are often helpful.
Hello, Dotsmom. I think you're probably a little uneasy sharing your info with strangers, but look at it this way: this is completely anonymous. Even thought we "know" your situation, we don't have any idea who YOU are - and we never will. The beauty of the world wide web! Please hang in here and keep posting.
Basil Duke
dotsmom:
Please understand...I am just thinking and throwing things out there for you to think about...not to pass judgement...we don't really do that here...we compassionately tell you the truth...we don't know you...but we have lived and seen MLC in many different ways...it is primarily typical...with some variations...not many. We are here to help you, not harm you!
Yes, I totally agree that it is very important for a woman to know that she is still attractive...desired by her husband or other men...any man for that matter...especially when we get to this time in our lives or age. I felt the way you do also when I first turned 50...I still worry about it.
I am unsure what you want me to say or where you need help. SO, I guess I will ask you questions....you needn't answer them in open forum...you can just think about them...that is what I am trying to get you to do...think things through...instead of "feel" things through.
I want you to think about these questions in two ways: YOU only and YOU and your relationships (husband , family, friends) Be honest with yourself. For Example:
You Only You/Relationships
I need to feel attractive I want to have a sexual life with my husband.
I need to be desired. I don't want to deal w/my husband libido anymore.
I need time for myself. I need my friends to think well of me.
What do you WANT? What do NEED?
What don't you want? What don't you need?
Do You think you are in an MLC or is your husband? Maybe both of you?
Are YOU happy in the place that you are at right now?
If helping your husband and finding answers about his libido is not your goal, then what is?
Do you still want to be married to your husband?
Do you still love your husband? Do you like him?
What would happen if you decided to end the marriage? How would he react? Is this an option or a choice you would consider?
What would this look like? Can you envision your life without him?
What would your husband's reaction be if you had an affair? An emotional affair? A Physical affair?
What are you really angry about other than your situation with your husband?
Are you tired of fighting? Do you want to escape your whole life situation or do you want to escape your marriage?
Much of what you have told us is very normal...even the erotic dreams about your kids friends....as long as you don't act on any of these dreams...they are just dreams. Don't be embarassed about it...it is your brain trying to help you through what frustrates and angers you during the day while you are awake. Plus if you are living a relatively celibate life or without for any length of time, your brain will go there during sleep...it is natural...it is the human body taking care of itself...it knows that it needs a health sex life to remain healthy.
The most important thing at this point is that you realize that you are vulerable here...There are men who are on the look out for women that are starving for attention or sex and they will zero in on you like a fighter jet on a target. They come in all shapes and sizes...in your neighborhood, church, grocery store and gym and on the internet...they are friends, old flames, your kid's teacher, the man you hired to paint your kitchen...a co-worker....even the Facebook Friend that has been watching your feed to see what you say and look at. Internet Affairs are just as dagerous as those that are not.
Please know that I am saying these things to you because I have been at this for a long time, coaching, writing and researching the topic...plus my own journey......a woman who doesn't feel or know OR wants to know that she is still desireable or atttractive will eventually go out and find someone who will fulfill that need., especially if her husband can not or will not do this for her. It is NOT your job to figure out why his sexual libido is low...but you do need to be diligent to make sure that their isn't any other reason why he isn't feeling this way toward you...OR...is this toward any woman at all? Are his needs being met elsewhere? Is there something that your husband isn't telling you?
Your husband should be very worried...this is a ticking time bomb.
Girl...you deserve the best...you need to take care of yourself, but you need to make sure that you do it in a way that in the end you will not have regrets , be embarassed, ashamed or guilty about anything you said or did.
Please stay with us and talk things out. If coming to open forum and discussing things is too hard for you, please feel free to private e-mail me here at the forum. I am presently trying to work things out with Lefora to make the Women's category password protected....in the mean time, you can contact me or others privately.
We are here when you need. Hanging in there and keep posting.
Shepherdess
Wow, that's a lot of questions. Let's start with the main one: "I am unsure what you want me to say or where you need help." I know I'm not the only person out there that is in an otherwise acceptable marriage with no passion or sex. I'm asking how I learn to accept my lot in life and just get over it. This has bothered me for a long, long time. I guess it has recently come to the forefront for several reasons. One reason is that our married life has been troubled for years. I think while we were raising the kids I always had it in my mind that someday I would get out. Things have gotten better over time. A lot of the problems that I thought would eventually lead to divorce have been overcome. A counselor once told me that women get a divorce thinking they will solve their problems, when in fact, they just end up with another set of problems. I believe that is true; I've seen it happen with a lot of people I know. I do not want to wreck my family, upset my whole life, hurt the husband who has tried so hard to become a better person, so that I can start over again with some unknown. So I am committed to staying in my marriage for the long haul. I know that if we keep working on improving our relationship, it could be more fulfilling. I guess there is a remote possibility that eventually there could be intimacy again. But it seems so remote that I have given up hope.
I think that covers the initial part of your response. Now for this part: "The most important thing at this point is that you realize that you are vulerable here.." I am aware of all that. Many, many years ago, I did have a couple of flings with other men. It was so long ago, but one thing I remember is that it wasn't worthwhile. The brief excitement was not worth the guilt, pain, etc. I have been attracted to men. I know what it feels like, what the lines are between being friendly and flirting, etc.
There is a man at work that I have been very attracted to (don't worry, nothing going on). I was working with him daily for awhile, now I encounter him only briefly every few weeks. I convince myself that I will remain detached and not ogle him, but within a few minutes of seeing him, I feel like I could melt into a puddle. He shakes my hand or gives me a friendly hug and I feel like I'm being sucked into a vortex. (He is not an opportunist as you describe above. He's a happily married good guy.)The idea of having no control over my feelings angers me. The excitement of just being attracted to someone makes me feel alive. Followed by feeling hopeless, empty, pathetic.
My husband doesn't need to worry, I am not a ticking bomb. I am very strong. I will live up to what I know is right and what everyone expects of me. I just feel like a little secret part deep inside of me is starving to death.
I appreciate your concern and kindness and the opportunity to get all this off my chest. I have talked to a friend about it some, but it's not something you just bring up in casual conversation. It's not good to have festering feelings, maybe it will help just putting it all out there and seeing if anyone has words of wisdom for me.
Dotsmom. I really feel for you and your husband. You must be a very strong and good person to have lived "without" for so long. I am 51 too. I have noticed there are a few of us women who have had an increase in sexual desire at this stage and that is also true for me. It seems to be a very common problem for couples in long-term marriages that the passion and sexual heat fades and they become less interested in sex. That coupled with the increased sexual desire that some of us are experiencing, can be very frustrating. Are you sure your husband is not willing or able to work on this problem with you?
My husband has had some issues with being physically unable to have sex at times too and that can be very frustrating for both parties. Sex still happened, just not as often and as fullfulling as we would have liked. I also think it is not uncommon problem as men get older. My husband has high blood pressure and takes medication for it and that might be part of the problem for him and it might have been partly psychological too. However we have discovered a few things that have helped. I will send you a private message regarding some things you might try because I feel funny putting them here where everyone can read it. I know you said that advice on how to help your husband's libido isn't going to be helpful, but I thought there might be some things that would be worth a try. It makes me sad to think of you going on this way.
Thank you. I think I received your message, although it was just one line in the subject line, no text in the message. Did you send more than one sentence? If so, try again. I do not want to discuss things that are of a graphic nature publically, I would feel too embarrassed. In answer to your question, I think in time maybe my husband and I could try again, maybe with counseling. Truthfully, for so many years we resented each other so much, then for awhile I think we were just tolerating each other, now we're starting to like each other. I can't help it if my hormones are all out of synch with the seasons of my marriage. As I feel that menopause must be right around the corner, I wonder if my libido will change. Maybe I won't have any desire anymore, which might be a blessing, but I don't want to say goodbye to that part of my life. I guess I'm not growing older gracefully.
I try to practice an attitude of gratitude and be thankful for all that I have, not dwell on what's missing. I am a basically happy person, but have been feeling down at times in the past few months. As I said earlier, I changed jobs and the kids all left, leaving me feeling like what's next? Maybe that's the reason all these things that had been dormant for a long time are coming to the surface. I made myself a list of things to do and not do when feeling blue, that helps. I am trying to develop more interests. I also have a social void; I was at my previous job for almost 20 years so had a lot of close friends. I still keep in touch with some of them, but it's not the same as the day to day contact we use to have. I'm making friends at the current job, but nobody I really click with or would hang out with outside of work. With the kids gone, and my husband and I don't share many interests, I get lonely sometimes. I volunteer for things and make an attempt to keep busy on the weekends, but it's just so different than a short time ago when there were kids in the house and something always going on.
Anyways, I don't want to sound like a whiner, which I think I have done here. I'm okay. Things could be a lot worse. Thank you for your reply. The internet is a great thing, huh?
Hello, Dotsmom. You're not whining! You're looking for answers, looking for help. Kudos to you for taking the initiative to seek answers. I wish to God my wife had done the same! Keep posting, ma'am!!!
I resent the message. Don't know why it didn't come through to you. Try opening it again and if you don't get it maybe Shepherdess can tell us what we are doing wrong.
Struggling, I figured out how to read my messages. I didn't know I had an inbox. Thanks.
Hello Dotsmom,
I just wanted you to know that you're not alone. When I read your post I almost cried because it was like reading my own story and I have often felt like the only woman in the world living like this (although I know I'm not). I'm in a very similar position as you except that I think you're handling yours more gracefully and I want to express my admiration for how you're seeking help with coping and being so strong. You know what you are and aren't going to do. I, on the other hand, feel a great deal of anger, resentment, and overwhelming sadness over my situation to the point of tears quite often. I am 48 years old and have spent the last 10 years with no sex life at all due to my husbands complete disinterest. He claims he loves me, yet, like your husband, apparently has psychological issues that I don't fully understand, but which affect his interest. It has taken a horrible toll on my self-esteem and created a bitterness that I never thought I was capable of, mostly though, the horrible sadness and feelings of loss. Prior to my husband, I was treated as a desirable woman by the men I dated and have pretty much forgotten what that feels like now. I yearn for it daily. All these years, good years of my life that I will never have again, gone, and there's nothing I can do about it. And, in what I now think is a mid-life crisis for me, it's as if I just woke up and realized how much I am missing and the futility of anything with my husband, and I think daily now about seeking out an affair, something which, due to my values, was never something I thought I'd even consider much less do. It's a horrible position to be in and I wish I had your clarity and strength on this topic.
I know that none of this is helpful to you. I truly wish I knew something that would be helpful to both of us! I think that, at least with the strength you express, perhaps channeling your feelings into some other area of fulfillment for yourself might help some? For example, I'm trying to set a goal of completing a triathalon, something I can feel good about that's just for me. Is there any goal that you would be interested in achieving that you could feel really good about? I guess I'm thinking about that whole sublimation thing that you sometimes hear about great artists doing, and just being able to feel good about something. I hope this doesn't sound too ridiculous.
I wanted to end by saying thank you for posting. Although I know it wasn't the intent of your post, you have inadvertently helped me to feel less alone by sharing your story and I appreciate it.
Wishing you the best!
Tlpm,
Some days I feel strong and like I'm handling things gracefully, other times, not so much. I understand completely what you mean about yearning to feel like someone finds you desirable. I find myself questioning why that should be so important to me. I am professionally successful, have done a good job of raising my kids, have a marriage that isn't perfect but is much better than a lot, so why does it matter if a man finds me attractive or desirable? I get angry at myself when I see this man I'm attracted to and my heart goes pitter pat like I'm a teenager and I wonder what the hell is wrong with me. Why am I a middle aged woman still having crushes on unavailable men? That's the real mystery to me. Frankly, even if I had some kind of sex life with my husband, would I still want the thrill of the chase with another man? I don't know. Sometimes I think I would have been better off not getting married, having a carefree life of trysts with all kinds of men (right, just like in the movies).
I am trying to channel my energies into some other area of fulfillment. Just haven't quite figured out what that is yet. I guess what you are referring to with words like "strong" and "graceful" is that I have resolved to not do the wrong thing. My resolve does not come solely from wanting to be a good person, there are other factors. One is that a lot of people look up to me and respect me, like my kids, coworkers, employees. If I were to do something crazy like have an affair, I would be so diminished in their eyes. That would be more hurtful to me than any short termed pleasure from an affair with an OM. Also, of course, the hurt it could cause my husband, who is not a saint but doesn't deserve that kind of heartache. For the people in this forum who have already made the choice to have an affair, or are with a spouse that has, I don't know how you come back from that. Just reading about their pain and anger makes me resolve to be a virtuous woman, or at least not an adultetress.
It is extremely good for me to have the ability to discuss this with the people here. It has been cathartic for me, and even if I get nothing more out of it, it has already been worthwhile. It helps that everyone who has responded has been kind and understanding.
I am going to go pick up a copy of The Walk Out Woman today. I read the reviews and it looks like a great book. We have been working on strengthening our marriage and it is improving slowly but surely. I will let you know what I think of the book. Thanks for writing.
I found The Walk Out Woman at a used bookstore and read it. What a marvelous book, full of understanding, wisdom, and compassion. I read through it fairly quickly, but am going to go back through, one chapter at a time, and do the exercises and hard work it calls for. I think it will be an excellent guide to help bring our marriage to the next level. It is not just for women who are walking out; the advice it gives will enrich any marriage. It has a chapter on affairs called "The Fantasy of Something Better". Anyone who is carrying on an affair or even comtemplating it would do well to read this, including internet and emotional affairs.
I am glad that you liked this book...your response is a wonderful endorsement. When I read it and we worked through our issues... it was the one book that at the time was not so filled with psycho-babble that my brain hurt...the exercises and tasks were simple and we saw improvement very soon after. I would love hear your impressions after you start using some of the suggestions. In fact, the chapter you cited was the one reason why I picked up the book and then reccommend here.
Another book that primarily speaks to any type of Affair is Torn Asunder: Recovering From Extramartial Affairs by David Carder. It's also written from a Christian viewpoint that is very gentle and understanding. Even if you haven't had an affair it is a great book to AVOID an affair...it is worth checking out. I just opened my copy and found our lists of what our individual Love Languages are...very intereseting to read through them again...amazing how far we have come in just four years!
Shepherdess
I am not a very religious person, so just the idea of picking up Walkout Woman from the Christian section of the bookstore was a leap for me. I read it with an open mind and did not find the Biblical references or Christian concepts to be overbearing. I think this book can be used by anyone of any faith (or no faith at all). I'm going to order a copy for a dear friend who has been married for 35 years and has a lot of strife. My husband and I sat down and talked for about an hour today. I told him about the book and we are committed to having a chat every weekend, and he is open to reading the book, discussing it and working on the suggestions.
The chapter that talked about the idea that maybe the point of marriage is not to make you happy, but to help you become more holy, really resonated with me. I think one of the big hurdles of MLC is letting go of the challenges of the past and embracing the future. It becomes a MLC when you have no concept that there is a future or what it looks like. The idea of becoming more holy: maybe holy isn't the only word for it, but I definitely want to become a person of integrity, that I can leave this world a somewhat better place for my being here. Maybe my challenge is to figure out how to best do that with the rest of my life, and if God gave me a challenging marriage to mold me and help me along that path, maybe I should accept that and go with the flow.
I agree with you about the psychobabble books. While I was at the bookstore, I picked up a copy of He's Just Not Up for It Anymore. I will let y'all know what I think of that one when I get a chance to read it. Don't you just love used book stores?
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Years ago, I worked for a large company and my office was arranged in little cubicles, but my fellow co-workers could see each other. One day, a woman of about 54 (I was early 40's) at the time said she hated the thought of sex, it was not pleasurable, it was just not good anymore. At the time I was
absolutely dumbfounded. I thought that if you were married, you just continued with sex until one of you died.
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Lo and behold, I got older, menopause set in and I will never forget that woman. I hate sex. My husband is still interested in having sex but he knows that it does nothing for me. The marriage is so broken, that either one of us would leave if the financial burden could be worked out. And it is so, so very sad.
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You want to have a long life and enjoy your grandchildren, etc. etc., but real life is that as boomers we have so many issues!
Peggy in Memphis
Someone please tell me that this is not the case with every woman after going through menopause! I'm not there yet and don't want to be!
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