My first post

eli - you sound like I did - although I was not looking for a romantic relationship while going through MLC - you sound just like me.  Don't confuse me with reality.  I would talk to my life partner - he would be shocked and dismayed by the words that were coming out of my mouth and I THOUGHT out of my heart.  One day I felt this way, the next another way, and the next yet another way.  Sometimes I could see the reality of my life - other times I was totally lost in a negative self image with no way out.

Somedays I could cope - others I couldn't - somedays I wanted to stay - others I wanted to leave.  No one here is judging you - we have all travelled this very confusing, life altering journey - from different sides - although just as confusing.  What I meant about the 'passion' in your bedroom - it does take two.  I found that out explicitly in my own bedroom.  When I was in pain, suffering from a negative world view and a tainted personal view - I was not putting any effort into my sexual life with my partner.  I expected him to make me come alive, to be creative, to bring the passion - to a person so empty I would not have been able to accept it for what it was - LOVE.

I made changes, I talked to my partner about making changes, I talked to my partner about the things I thought I needed in our romantic life - and - when I did - he was more than willing to work with me LOL.  Sorry guys - but there are very few men who, if invited, to spice up their intimate life with their partner, will not become enthusiastic about the prospect.  Try it - it does take two people to create the passion - that is not a judgment of you - it is REALITY.

What I meant about the internet pen pal - was nothing more than - here you go again looking for another romantic interest on the internet - you jumped to some really negative conclusions on that one - not intended by me - could have been my wording - sorry if that was the case.

From reading your posts here is what I see - a woman lost, feeling empty, feeling cornered, feeling lost, feeling confused, feeling slightly desperate to find some peace in her life but doesn't know where to find it.  As an adult who has travelled your road - I can tell you with certainty - if you do not settle this with yourself - in a meaningful way - not just running into the arms of another man - your child WILL suffer - it has taken me a lifetime to deal with the hurt my Mother placed on me for her own self gratification - she could not find peace - so she ran.  I HATE HER.

I hope you continue to check in - you will find a lot of meaningful information and experiences on this site - but only if you are really willing to listen.  You sound too defensive at this point.

PEACE

Hi Seabreeze,

Thanks for your lovely response. Most of what you have said is also applicable in my life, while some of it is applicable solely to you (which is what makes us all so wonderful)

I have worked for many years over the abandonment issues that I felt over what my mother did to me.  I really did hate her passionately for many years.  A book by Susan Andersen called "The Black Swan" changed my life in just a weekend.  It's a very small book but very powerful, and it enabled me to protect myself and feel strong about what happened.

While my mother spent her mid-life crisis in absolute denial, it has taken for me to have similar feelings (not the same) before I could truly understand what she was going through.  For example, she would lock herself in her bedroom for days at a time (to stay away from my father) but I genuinely believed it was because she hated me.  

I missed out on a lot of developmental processes due to being abandoned at aged 14.  Years back, I decided that I could spend my life being resentful, or I could be responsible and learn what I had not managed to learn before.  It was a long and difficult process, but extremely rewarding.

Today, I have a very amicable (but still relatively distant) relationship with my mother.  It has taken a long time for me to find a way to be able to love her while not encroaching on areas that may stir up unwanted pains.

As for my husband, many people may say that we should never have married because their NEVER was that "sexual chemistry" between us.  At the time, I had been so hurt that I felt that such an amazing friendship would be enough for me for the rest of my life. I know that sounds stupid and foolish, but it was what we both needed at the time.  We have loved eachother deeply and given eachother a great deal of support.  He is not and has never been willing to explore eachother sexually.. (The old school... lights off... close your eyes and think of England).

I guess that is why he is not sooo angry at me for talking to someone else.  My husband has no interest in deep conversation, preferring to only discuss lifes mundane issues, and he knows that I enjoy both physical and mental stimulation.  He is also beginning to explore different people and has begun thinking that there may be a woman out there who enjoys his "shallow" (his words, not mine) approach to life.   

I have really been able to find my voice over the last few days, and made it clear that I am filling an emotional need by this OM, that I am not having cybersex, that I have severely restricted my time spent talking to the OM, that I am not going to make plans to meet him, and that I am not walking out on my marriage.  

I am getting on better than before with my husband, and he does not judge me for eventually turning to someone else for emotional depth when he freely admits that he can not (and will not) give it.  I think we are both a little to blame for entering the marriage knowing that certain elements were missing, but it has been an amazing marriage bringing me great happiness and I wouldn't have changed what we experienced together for the world.

My husband is not the father of my adult children, and I believe that this will limit the devastation caused to them.  He has not even spoken to them for many years, so I wonder if they would even notice that we weren't together.  A separation would also mean that I would be returning to the country in which my children live, so I think they would prefer for me to be near them without a husband, over 'the other side of the world' with a husband.

I told my mother (very briefly) yesterday, that my marriage was on the rocks.  Quite shockingly, she suggested that I come and stay with her and my dad for a while to think over what I want to do.  I haven't spent one night with her since I was 14, and she opened her doors to me.  

I still think, for the moment, that the right thing to do is to spend as much time as possible talking to my husband, reading about this process, and (selfishly, I know) satisfying my own needs just enough to keep me from doing anything REALLY stupid.  

It may not be the ideal solution, but it is the most common sense solution that I feel capable of following today.  Baby steps...

Thanks for being there,

Eli

eli - wow - you have described a difficult situation - being married to a good friend - necessary - is more than that necessary - for me it is.  If what you say in your post is reality - then I would ask different questions.

Why would you destin yourself to live your life without the passion and companionship that is emotionally satisfying and meaningful to you?  I understand that you married at a time when you were hurt - vulnerable - willing to settle for security - BUT - do you really believe that you will be able to live the rest of your life in the situation you are in now?  Do you really believe that an internet relationship will not progress - it would be almost predictable that it will.  Or, that you might begin looking closer to home - more available.  Do you see similarities between how you feel now and how you felt (pain/hurt) when you first met your present husband - safe place in a storm?  

Your children - are obviously not part of the equation - being adult and distant from your husband.  It is you who must make the decision on how you live your life.  However, I would gently ask you - why, if it has been an empty marriage as far as emotional and sexual intimacy - do you have another man in your life before you finish with your husband.  It would be more understandable to me if you left the relationship, spent some time recovering and then moving on.  I am not judging you.  Many women believe that they must have a man in their life - that it is somehow necessary and their presence provides security and encouragement in the dissolution of marriages; when in fact, it is a false security, a false encouragement and creates a distorted view of reality.  I would support your decision to leave your marriage - you are obviously settling and that will continue to be vexatious to your spirit.  But I would caution you to not get involved with another man until you deal with the re-discovery of yourself - if you don't - you will find yourself in the same place 10 years from now - with the 'new' guy.

Just a few of my thoughts.

PEACE

Hey Ellie,
Sorry if I spelled wrong.
I'm in this with a woman who is sooo sweet. I am glad it is her.
Consider us all creatures who have chaged and will continue to change every day.
Maybe your husband will give you a wide path to tread for a while.
Maybe there is more in him than you know, but each of you have cut a groove and are pretty stuck in it.

I am not saying it isn't good to shake the tree once in a while, but take it slow.
Meditation could help you both.
I love my wife soo much and our three kids-oldest is 13.
I am working really hard-I know it may not go the way I think I want it to.
I will know I have been kind, have been mindful, have supported my wife to the best on my ability and done what I hope is my best in this very difficult situation.
Tom

Seabreeze,

I can see where you are coming from.  Yes, I did think that I could spend the rest of my life without passion.  I was so empty emotionally, that I couldn't envisage the situation ever changing.  I can't judge myself for doing that, because I don't believe in regrets, and it has been an absolutely wonderful relationship. 

As for why I won't first leave my husband and then deal with the issues... is because I don't want to.  There is no better place for me to go through this journey than in the safe environment of a loving relationship (loving within certain limits).  Everything would be too tempting if I was on my own, and loneliness may drive me to do something I will REALLY regret.  He is giving me the space I need to search myself, and has himself decided that he prefers for me to go through this while still in the home.

While I am facing the possibility of being without my husband sometime in the following months or years, I also have to consider the possibility that after much soul searching I may choose to stay with my husband.  It would be pre-emptive for me to chose one way or the other at the moment.

I will be eternally grateful for the space that he is giving me. 

Eli

Tom,

When I read your post, I truly believed that it was written by my husband.  You must truly be an incredible person to be able to be so loving and supportive in what can be a very painful transition.

Whatever happens with you, and with me, we are both learning (in our own way) that true love is about loving your partner and being loved, even though the situation is by no means guaranteed.

It is easy to love when you are loved in return, but you are showing what an amazing person you are, by loving in spite of the reasons you could find for not doing so.

It is very painful for both sides.  By helping her gently through this transition, you are playing your part in minimising any damage, and give her space to make the right decision for herself.

I admire you.  It is inspiring for me to hear of other men who do not choose bitterness and anger.  I thought I had the only incredible husband in the world. :)

My husband does play an important role in all this.  He makes sure that I sleep, that I eat, and most importantly, that I take time for myself to meditate and to reflect.  He is an incredible support.

Eli

Hello, Eli.

I think some of the 'control' you felt some of the earlier male posters (me included!) were trying to assert over you was/is a product of our intense frustration at having our lives and our childrens' lives upended without being given a fair chance to salvage something out of the mess. Your initial post raked open some scabs for us - which is one reason why I try to avoid commenting on women's threads, other than to recommend that the poster read The Shepherdess and the Sea Breeze's stuff.

For me - and a lot of other men - the "other man" is a loathesome creature - an immoral coward who hides behind the anonymity of the internet or the silence of the text message or workplace email while he destroys my family. He's the fluttering red cape to my caged bull. I would die a happy man if I were just granted five minutes alone with the SOB who stole my wife. I'm pretty sure a lot of the other fellows feel the same way. And when you posted about this individual on the internet, I could clearly see him in my mind's eye - smug and eager, risking nothing while threatening to destroy so very much.

I wasn't judging you earlier, and I'm certainly not judging you now. I sincerely hope you can find a good, healthy place - either with or without your husband. I just hope you can find that place within yourself, rather than with someone else's help.

eli: "I don't believe in regrets" - that is nice but it is irrelevant - the problem with 'regrets' is that we do not have control over them.  They come out of nowhere - years later - when we have a better understanding of ourselves and our life.  I didn't believe in 'regrets' either - couldn't understand what people were talking about - THEN - without any ability to stop it - the 'regrets' started eating at my soul. 
 
You say that you are staying within your marriage - because it is a good, safe place for you to travel your journey - you are right - but - somehow, I am sorry if this pisses you off, I seem to be reading that as - it is good for me, I don't really care about what it does to my partner or our relationship.  That may not be what you were intending to imply - the problem with words on a computer screen.  If you are going to stay within your relationship during this time - do you plan on working on the relationship - or just living within it until you feel better.  If you don't work on the relationship - you will leave it at one point or another - that is a guarantee.  You have already stated that there is lack of will on this part - are you only staying because it is SAFE - that is not a good enough reason and it is selfish on your part.
 
I don't know whether you have read my story - I will recap as briefly as possible - been with my partner for 35 years, 3 adult children - always was an independent, do what I need to kind of woman.  I had my own career, my own identity, my freedom.  When I retired, and a minor health issue - I informed my partner that I was about to fulfill a life long dream - living in the forests and mountains - I was not leaving him - I was leaving the city - we have lived 3500kms from each other for 6 years.  I know of no other woman or man who has a partner that is willing and trusting enough to not only agree, but to totally their life partner while they travelled a path so distant from theirs.
 
Everything was wonderful for me - girlfriends envied my life, my lifestyle, my family and my life partner.  I was a strong, determined, nothing will stop me woman.  I had achieved many things I could be proud of - I had succeeded in my goals - I had it all.  Then one morning I awoke and my world had changed - all of a sudden I was EMPTY - I found myself in the depths of an abyss of negativity about myself, my world, my relationships, my accomplishments.............
 
Where am I going with this?  My own experience has taught me - it is all about me - nothing else - ME.  I had the space - I had the independence - I had the freedom - all the things those in MLC say they need - yet I was more miserable than I thought a person could be and still breathe.  Because the anguish was not about my life - it was about the demons that had hidden away there for years - demons I truly thought I had dealt with years before - I had, intellectually but not emotionally.  I had no control over them - they consumed me - they tainted everything - everything FELT different - the air was different - routine tasks were different - my world was different. 
 
I turned to my partner - to his comfort, solace and unconditional love - to help me survive what was happening to me.  Although it was painful for us both, he walked beside me - sometimes pushing me away because I was so hateful, sometimes craddling me because I was in such pain, sometimes putting a mirror in front of me to see reality as opposed to my tainted view, sometimes crying with me as I poured my soul out to him.  Throughout all of this we knew that my goal was to come out of it intact - our relationship, our family but most importantly ME.  If I had told him that I did not know if I would still choose to be with him at the end of this journey - his role would have changed from supporter and ally - to bystander, in pain, constantly battling the uncertainty.  My partner was certain of one thing - that it was my primary goal to get healthy, to re-discover myself, to heal - so that I could remain within the relationship and feel happy and fulfilled.  I never considered going to another man - I believe, partly because I was aware that adding a romantic interest to the MLC mix would sabotage my commitment to keeping my marriage together.
 
just some thoughts - PEACE

"You have already stated that there is lack of will on this part - are you only staying because it is SAFE - that is not a good enough reason and it is selfish on your part."

I did not say that I was staying because it was SAFE, but because it was a SAFE environment to assess whether to stay or leave.  A reread of my post would make that clearer to you.

My husband would disagree with you, and say that the selfish behaviour would be if I walked out on this marriage at the first time of trouble.  He is willing to work through this with me, and I am grateful for his love.  A truly selfish woman would just go and do what she wanted.  It was his request that I don't leave and do anything stupid.

I think we have to agree to disagree.  This conversation is not going anywhere. 

All the best.

elli

eli - you need to re-read all of your posts - you go back and forth in a state of confusion.  It seems to me that you are only willing to take advice that supports your already pre-determined course of action.  One day your relationship is loveless and passionless - you blame this on your husband and get angry at the suggestion that it takes two to create passion.  The next it is a loving, safe place for you to be.  You are confused - you need to  figure out what you have and what you want.  Right now you seem to be spinning.

Your H is being caught up in your turmoil.  He has to be as confused about what you are saying as you seem to be.  In my opinion - yes this conversation is over - you only want confirmation of what you already believe, you don't want insight into what is happening to you.

PEACE

PEACE

Hey,
Some advice in this thread would be good from whoever.
It has been almost three months since my wife told me she was not sure she wanted to be married to me.
Again, we have three kids, eldest 13.
I love my wife-she has been is counseling for ~10 months and is emerging a very changed woman.
There was a guy she got close to for emotional connection and it was a trigger for me.
Caused me to respond-searching cell, trying to hack email.
Drove her further from me-the beginning of the "I'm not sure phase".
I don't think he is what this is all about though, but her emotional closeness to him hurt and left me feeling betrayed.
I has been a very hard road. We have spent time in different beds, more recent she a couple nights away from home, and now she has requested I leave for two night and she will be out for two.
When I look at what I want (to be with her and our kids) this is not ideal. The option to fully separate and hope that the space will cause her to miss me and appriciate me more is very tempting.
Now I am trying to live in the present and enjoy each moment-time alone, time w kids and time with my whole family. We are kind considerate and supportive of each other.
She is seeing a counselor, and we are seeing a m counselor together, though we just quit him because he has not helped us and only wiggles his sock cladden feet. We need a new one.
Am I serving as to big a "doormat"?
I trust her. She is sweet, just unsure about where she is headed.
Should I keep waiting or pull the plug and tell her to phone me up if she wants to be with me?

Tom
PS Eli, thanks for the note-don't want to hack your thread but it is where I am.

When I look at what I want (to be with her and our kids) this is not ideal. The option to fully separate and hope that the space will cause her to miss me and appriciate me more is very tempting.

-guest_guest

The only appreciation you will get is an appreciation that you are finally out of the house and she can do whatever she wants now.  DON'T MOVE OUT...Separate within the home...this two nights in and two nights out...what the heck is that....not good for the kids.

 

Am I serving as to big a "doormat"?
I trust her. She is sweet, just unsure about where she is headed.
Should I keep waiting or pull the plug and tell her to phone me up if she wants to be with me?

-guest_guest

Going back and forth....playing the MLC Limbo is crazy...Is there an OM or isn't there?  Does she want the marriage or doesn't she?  

Why are you giving her a choice at all...to pull the plug or come back?  You may be waiting a long time for that phonecall call for you to come home...she is the one who wants to leave or end the marriage...it is she that needs to leave...NOT you...and YOU choose if YOU will allow her back in, especially if there is any hint of an OM.

Shepherdess

Eli, I know this thread is old but I wanted to reach out to you. I am in the same boat as you. Although I dont have any family members that have has a MLC or maybe just werent honest with anyone and told about it but ninetheless I am having one. I have been married for 19 years and I have 4 kids. I want to run and not look back. Will I? No I wont. But its such an internal battle daily. No one seems to understand. My get lectures from my mom to just "knock it off" as though I chose this pain and can turn it off. I would love to talk to you privately if you are up for that. When I joined and posted my very first post about my self I got all the same answers. I didnt listen and did my thing. I have no regrets. I am still home and still "functioning" the best I can.  I have since then learned that a great friend from my past is going through the same thing although she did leave her husband. So she and I have each other to talk to. I dont want anyone telling me what to do or what not to do.. but just to listen and understand. Let me know if you would like to talk...

Good luck to you and I hope you are doing well...

QD