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I agree with Shepherdess but feel as you do...It might be a selfish thought on my part or just that I haven't moved on enough yet in my sitch with detaching but WHERE IS GOD!  I am not by no means a perfect person and was not a perfect H but WHY ALL THE PAIN and SUFFERING EVERYWHERE!  Yes there is a great deal of pain and suffering on this and ALL THE OTHER FORUMS I HAVE BEEN READING and of course more that I do not even know exist...WHY?  TOO MUCH PAIN and I beleived that MY GOD was supposed to TAKE CARE OF AND HEAL THOSE who BELEIVE IN HIM...NOT PUNISH!

Peace my friends

Noidea:

What makes you think that GOD is punishing you...your wife...or your children...it isn't GOd who is doing this...it is the Evil One...God doesn't harm you...He prospers you...but only if you are willing to turn to Him in faith...IT IS the narrow path...the difficult path.  Your wife is is wrestling with the Devil and if you enable her behaviors or appease her...YOU are helping the Evil one in his victory!!  

God is right there...re-read my post...He is chasing us around trying to get our attention...in the mean time we are like two-year olds saying...oh, no I can do this myself...I can handle it...so, He let's us do it ourselves...this is called Free-Will.  

Like I said in my post...Are you looking for God to help or The Wiz?  Who do you think is the author of all the hurt, pain and suffering at all the other forums and here?  It is NOT God...it is human beings making poor decisions...not having faith in God...turning to the tempatations of devil through infidelity and adultery...The author of what you are seeing is Satan...NOT God!!!  Satan is punishing you because YOU DO believe in God.  God's children are the first and hardest to be attacked.  DO you feel it?  DO  you know it?  What are you going to do about it?

Start with "Get thee behind me, Satan...In the Name of Jesus Christ, get thee behind me!"  

Believe me it works...keep saying it...if he has a hold on her...he has a hold on you...

Then put on the "Armour of God"... THEN you pray unceasingly!

But NO, noidea...GOD is NOT punishing you...change your perspective on this and things may change for you.

Shepherdess

Attachment: Armor of God.doc (24.0KB)

Shepherdess your post was most timely, and not overwhelming at all. I was literally sitting here crying asking God "why are you doing this to me, to her, to all of us". Your post provides great comfort. I am praying hard for all those things you suggested. Today is very hard, as my daughter is out of town and my son is gone all day with friends. I realize how much of my life was devoted to the kids and my W, that I'm here completely alone, crying to God for help. I'm very lonely.
I feel lucky in one aspect that my relationship with my W is not contentious, we are just apart, with very little contact, due to me detaching. You said how you can feel God's presence in your life and others have told me that also, but I don't know how that feels. I'm trying to reach out but I feel that my hand is getting slapped away. I feel as lost as perhaps my W does. I have no goals anymore, no plan, may be even no hope. Perhaps I have not sunk far enough for God to give me his hand, but I don't know how much lower I can go. I'm tired, just mentally exhausted. I have no joy left in my life.

I know I need to be strong, and I pray for it everyday, but while I know I need to be strong for the kids, this is a much too heavy a weight to bear alone. I need God to help me, to give me strength and guidance, to protect and heal my Wife's heart and I ask thru prayer constantly. But I have no answers yet.
Your post was wonderful, and got me to stop crying, and feeling sorry for myself, at least for now. Hopefully God will show me a sign that he is listening.........I'm just very tired.

you are 100 % correct. I never thought of it that.....geez I'm stupid. I agree wholeheartedly that we are in a battle with the devil and right now we are losing badly. If my W would turn back to her faith she may see it, but right now she won't.

Again nothing to be done except hope and pray she will turn around.

ok....maybe I screwed up, but I was sitting here and talked to my in-laws- who had a not so good phone conversation with their daughter .........

I got angry, and there was some mail here for her that I guess she would pick up over the weekend some time.

So I got in the car and drove to the car dealership where she works, she sits in the showroom at the front desk....

I walked in...she was on the phone...saw me...eyes got big...and I laid her mail right in front of her, turned around and left.

Why did I do that??.....I don't know.

Were you compelled by what you heard the conversation was about?  Was it the Holy Spirit that ripped you out of your chair and told you to take her mail to her to remind her that YOU are still very much a part of her life...even if it was just seeing you? You don't have to have a fight...this doesn't have to be a knock down drag out...in fact, if God is involved...it won't be....it will be as simple as being stirred to do something, walking in with no notification...not saying a word and turning to and walking out. The non-verbal can say a lot!!!!   You don't know why...but God does....Let Him work!!!

Shepherdess


PS To whomever said that they felt that GOd was slapping their hand away...again...that isn't GOD slapping your hand...it is the Evil One slapping your hand away...keep praying and reaching...when there is little hope...and you feel like you are sinking...'Grab on, Peter! Grab on!"

I keep re-reading that post. I wish my W would recognize what she is doing, and yes she has turned her back on her faith. I hope and pray that her eyes will open.

Ask people to pray for you and your family...wrap yourselves in prayers of protection.

Ask God to bring earthly angels to speak to hear...to listen...to soften her heart and protect her.

Believe it or not...the increase of women who claim to be Christians are the one's who are going through crisis at Mid-life the most.  THis is why I say that it is not only a crisis of the mind and body...it is also a crisis of the spirit.

If indeed, your wife is a child of God...this could be her prodigal time.  If she is lost...the Shepherd will leave the flock of 99 and go out to search for the one lost sheep.  A dear woman, who I bearly knew told me this while I was lost...God laid these words upon her heart to tell me...Why?...because God did not leave me alone...He will not give up on one of His children, especially if they have professed their faith in Him. Believe me, when I tell you that when Christ said "I am with you always, even until the end of time."...this is a promise He does not break.  I know...He has never left me...I left Him...but He NEVER left me!  And when this prodigal daughter return...He celebrated, returned my marriage and family to me and has blessed with a call...a call to help women and men just like you.
 
SO, my dear friend, please do not lose heart...the Lord is with you..He has never left your side and HE is with your wife...if her heart is truly His...she will be found.

You may receive comfort during this time reading "Streams in the Desert by Mrs. Charles Cowan.  Click the title and you will be able to order it from the WINMLC Bookstore. Or if you would like to read some right now go here on the internet. 

Shepherdess

Numbers 6: 24-26

After I came back from the dealership, I sat at the computer to e-mail your post to members of the family because I felt it was so powerful.

As I was typing.....saying how low I felt, how I thought God didn't love me....and so on, and I broke down and cried at the keyboard trying to type those words, for 40 mins....and I said I was sorry, over and over, and begged for forgiveness, and for strength, protection, and healing for my wife. I ended up on my knees, crying, repeatedly asking for His guidance, and strength, and healing.

3hrs later I got a text from my wife asking to stop at the house to get a recipe. She stopped and we talked for 1 1/2 hours, and I used the strategies you suggested , listening, not being judgemental , understanding and gently trying to get her to recognize that she may be in mlc, and she actually listened and asked questions. She cried much, is still very confused but as she left she gave me a huge hug and a kiss on the cheek .

It was the first constructive conversation we have had in along time. Nothing was settled except that she needed to talk and I was there to ..listen.

I believe God answered my prayer

Keep praying...and allowing Him to work!  Remember He is softening her heart...He will give His revelations according to what SHE can handle right now.  Be thankful, grateful....have faith in Him.  Be ready for anything...either way...you don't know His plan.  Listen and be attuned to the Holy Spirit.

I agree...God answered your prayer.

Shepherdess

unbeknowst to me my W had called my ESIL after the call from her parents, crying very upset. Her sister listened and gently gave answers when she asked for them...in the end my ESIL felt it was the best conversation she has had with her sister in weeks.

Then she stopped at the house...which I outlined in my previous post.

A small step??.. I will continue to ask for guidance and strength, and healing and protection for my wife ,

but continue the present strategy of detachment, but I will be here to listen if she is ever ready again.

Just home from church, the services are now very emotional for me......got a text from my W yesterday wishing me to try and have happy 4th....I wished her the same.

No further contact about the talk we had Friday night, I think it best to let her come to me as feels comfortable and I will be ready to listen.

Shepherdess, was there anything that you needed to hear from your husband during your "healing" phase.??

Or was it just that he was there to listen, and offer compassion and support??

Actually...when I was most broken...it was compassion, gentleness and his ability to set himself aside for the moment for me. He listened a lot...but at the same time he was my rock and my spiritual leader through this hard time.  We prayed together also. 

I suffered horrible panic attacks afterwards.  At first there were days that he just laid in our bed with me and just held me as tight as he could...not saying a word, just letting me talking, shake all over, be in a panic and hold me.  He didn't press me hard about the any one thing, but at the same time he did ask when he thought I was ready to talk about it.  After I stopped the panic attacks...it was then that he asked more questions.  He knew when to stop...but at the same I was getting stronger too...I knew when it was time to stop also.

We learned how to be just friends again.  It was very important that we relearn this part of our relationship...we had lost it over all the times that he had been deployed and I became a full time mother.  

I remembered what a noble man my husband was, smart, witty and very loving.  There were times when he made it very plaing that this was hard for him also and he was not sure how it would turn out...the one thing was for sure he would not leave the way I was then...battered, broken and lost.  

Much of what and why we had to make things work was because of our children...all five of them...we had a joint reason to do everything in our power to work things out for our children...because divorce at that point was not an option...or even separation for that matter.  We became a team...it has been that way ever since.

Shepherdess  

my wife called today to tell me about a mutual friend, that I could care less about, but the conversation turned to our situation. For 2 hours I listened and gently tried to place seeds of doubt concerning her alternate reality. Basicly it's this....the OM is in the wings....not actively involved ..but there. She feels he will make her happy, but doesn't want to lose me , the kids or the family. I simply spent 2 hours listening, gently offering opinions, trying not to be judgemental.

They work at the same place, but have little contact during the day as their jobs restrict interaction, but he is there.
She knows that if she comes back she has to give him up, and leave the job, which she is hesitant to quit as she says they have been very good to her which they have, but HE is there, and to me and the kids one of them has to go. She is torn between this infatuation of him, and the love of us and her family. We know that the two of them can not be there together. She says we expect her to give up up COULD make her happy.....I said you never said you were unhappy, which she ....said i was right....hmmm

Anyway, after 2 hours on the phone, as like the other night we decided to end it there. I did again mention mlc, which she was a little defensive, but did ask why I thought that same as the other night. I gently explained what I've learned here, and I did not say this , but do you think printing sbreeze and one of shepherdess posts explaining their struggles for her to read would help??

again, nothing settled except talking about issues that she would not hear of several weeks ago, me listening as much as she would talk, much of it painful to me, but I stayed calm, spoke softly and tried to gently refute her alternate reality when possible.

We are talking, she is still focused on HER happiness, but she is talking, and looking at pros and cons, asking me what I think, and I gently tell her, some she seems to accept, some she refutes and I let it go to deal with some other time. It is very difficult to do, but I keep reminding myself that this is her journey and I or no one can tell her what to do, as she needs to look within herself and to learn about what is going on with HER, as these issues are hers not mine or anyone else's. I told her I would be there as she needs me. Boy its tough...Any thoughts....thanks for the supportive posts.....you have no idea how they help.

Hello, MLB. 
 
From my end, it seems like you're torturing yourself. You may want to rethink your eagerness to engage her in extensive dialogue. No offense, but what else is there for you to say? You've told her you love her and want to keep your marriage intact. And in return, she's told you that she's pretty sure the scum of an other man will make her happy. But she doesn't want to lose you or the children. Well, sir, she can't have both. And I don't think you're doing yourself any favors by telling her that "I would be there as she needs me."
 
You give a woman in crisis that kind of license and she's going to use it to drive over your heart with a semi-truck - many dozens of times.
 
She's trying to "back pocket" you - or "cake eat." In case, the scum doesn't work out, she needs to know you're still there for her - hence the little crumbs she's doling out to you in these phone conversations - cruelly planting hope when likely she knows exactly what she's going to do. (Hint: it probably doesn't include you.)
 
I'm not trying to discourage you, but I've lived this very same nightmare. Still AM, as a matter of fact. But I decided pretty soon into my own debacle that I wasn't going to allow my soon to be ex wife to abuse me and torment me. (Not that she was all that eager to do anything but booster rocket my butt out of her life.) I had to withdraw from the battlefield, recruit my strength - while simulatenously licking some pretty grievous wounds - and fortify for the seige in which I still sit.
 
You ARE right about her focus on herself. This is ALL about her right now. She thinks the swine at work will make her "happy." You're viewed as something of a sentimental roadblock to happy land. You're in a very, very tough spot. There aren't any answers or certainties. Which is all the more reason for you to do everything you can to protect yourself and your children against the funnel cloud that's still roaring inside your wife's head.

You did well...really you did...as hard as it was for you to just listen.

As long as she thinks that the OM is a possibility, she will either remain neutral or be willing to experiment in that direction.  As much as I am telling you to listen and remain calm...you must also make sure she understands what her decisions and choices will cause...the consecquences of her actions.  The boundaries and deal breakers are still pretty self explanatory...As long as she is married to you...the OM is NOT an option.  If she decides to take up with the OM and you learn of this...then in your book this is making a decision for all of you...she has chosen the OM over you and the family.  This is tough love...the kind that needs to happen if you really want her to come home.  

There is a fine line between being compassionate, understanding and gentle with the truth AND enabling or being co-dependent in anothers bad behaviors.  
As positive as these past two conversations have been...there needs to be a point, if you haven't already...to let her know that the OM is not an option...NO OM...she is married to you.  Placing this man, even her job above her own children and family says something about what she is going through at this time.

Have you read the Walk Out Woman yet?  Instead of printing off our comments from these pages...I would have your SIL or BIL give her a copy of this book to read...it does have a Christian emphasis, but not so much that she will be repelled by it.  To be honest, in my experience not many women read the articles with an open mind if they are given to them by their husband or even left around by their husband.  Your SIL/BIL might be able to...but right now, anything from you will be rejected because she will think that you are manipulating her or trying to control her.

Take it slow...stop telling her that you think she is in MLC...the more you say this...the firmer she will set herself in to denial.  Let her come to this conclusion...many people never realize that this is what it is until way after it is all over.  (Have you been reading eli's story here?)...you can't go to hard or fast at these women when they are in this state...pressure them...it makes them agitated, cornered...they run.  I did the same thing when I was at this stage also.  Small, slow steps...Baby steps are very good...it is all that they can handle right now.

SO...keep going slow.  The fact that she called and wanted to talk to you was another step ahead....to where...still the unknown...but it is forward motion.

Shepherdess

Numbers 6:24-26 

PS...Basil is right also...remain vigliant about her activity with the OM...she can't be working with this man and have no contact...she has to at some point.  No OM will hang on for no reason at all...they become bored and move on to their next conquest...it is the thrill and adventure of the affair that makes them so inviting for the OM...if she is acting all confused and mental about things, well...he would run. I don't think you are getting the whole story about this part of the story.

Thanks for the advice and support, my son said the same thing as both of you...he's not a big "mom" fan right now.

Unfourtunately in her mental state she has it right now the OM vs family. Thats her reality, I did not try to change it, just gently offered pros and cons to each scenerio, more pro towards us. I asked directly what about him makes you happy? After awhile she said that they have good conversations, and they have a lot of common interests. I said like what....after awhile of trying to get it out of her she could not name one common interest. About their relationship, she said she speaks to him at work, but not about the issues between us, she claims to have told him that she needs to work this out on her own, claims he doesn't ask. Ok may be a sliver of truth there, as she broke down friday and told me that she was sorry she ever got involved with him, that she's embarrassed, ashamed, sinned againest God and is going to hell, and that she will go to her grave hating herself for how she hurt me and the kids. the way she said it and the heaving sobs ..i believe her on that...but I think she is addicted to the "friendship" aspect of this as she misses talking to him. I asked about the physical aspect of the relationship and she broke dwn and said it's not what I think, ( I don't want to know details) but that she regrets it, is "revolted" by it and wishes she could take it back, but knows she can't and must take responibility for it. She touched on her coming back, the boundries that would need to be set like, no working together, either he leaves or she does, verifiable NO CONTACT, individual conseling, and that if she comes back it is of her choice, no one else's, because she wants to, becuase she wants to work on straightening her life out. I said this all very gently, no judgement, no belittling, no talking about me or where I am, she asked but I said we'll work on me later. These things were just seeds planted, not demands, not ultimatums, just things to gently put doubt in her reality, and like sbreez said its "her" reality. I will drop the mention of mlc, although she did ask about it. I told her again that we have talked enough, lets both think on things a couple days.
Later in the evening she did call my ESIL and spoke about this conversation and did tell her she may be home w/o a job, or in a new job, she didn't know, as her ESIL was coming to visit at the end of August. My ESIL just listened and told her to think on it and she would talk to her more in a couple days.
I have no expectations on this at this time except that she did reach out to me, and talked, and I listened, which is very hard emotionally, but she did respond to it. I let her talk about the OM as much as she felt she could, I did not press on that issue or any other when I felt she had said as much as she could at that time. I held my hurt and anger, I did not show it and reminded her that I am here for her, to help her. She texted me yesterday that it was nice to talk to me about this and that it had helped. So...thats where we are. You have to start somewhere. Am I vigeliant on the OM, I think I am, we talked about her behavior and how what she does reflects on the kids and she should not be out embarrassing them. She told me she has done nothing to do that since she told me about his stuff in May, and promised she will make better decisions in the future. I know alot of what you read in the posts about other couples in a similar situation as ours are at each others throats over everything, but that's not the case. Could I be angry and divorcing her sure, but I made a choice to try to stand by her and to try to bring her back. Will I succeed ...I don't know, but she is worth it to try, and I know it will be long and difficult. I will not push, as much positive I have said here there is equally the negative things she needs to work on also, but I went from no communication to some....and discussing some issues that weeks ago she would not even entertain. Nice and slow, tiny whiny steps.

Oh some other things...I am reading the "Worn Out Woman" and I will get the other tonight.

Secondly, I'm still detaching, meaning I am not soliciting this contact. I am only responding to her requests to talk.

From Shepherrdesss' and sbreeze's posts this seems to be part of the process. I get the impression that it is an important step but also how I handle the conversations are equally important. Unless Shepherdess feels otherwise, I will respond to her requests but it is in a gentle, honest business-like way, trying to keep my emotions out of it, not compromising, or enabling.

Monday greetings, MLB.
 
Please don't mistake my negativism/cynicism for criticism of your decisions or aspirations. Every situation is different (although most are stitched together by several major threads). I wish you nothing but the best. My goal here is to share what I've learned, in the hope that others can avoid the landmines I've already detonated. Nothing angers me faster than the thought of some desperate and panicked guy letting his MLC spouse chew his throat out after she's already taken his heart.
 
Your description of your wife's feelings of shame for whatever it is she's done sexually with the other man rang very true. Like yours, my wife told me "It's not what you think...." "You have NO idea what's really been going on...." If I had to guess, this was my wife's way of trying to tell me that although she and her imbecile HAVE had sex - it's not nearly the non-stop carnal circus that she thinks I envision. Unfortunately, it doesn't matter to me whether they fornicate once every two weeks or four times a night: the deed has been done. My wife is having sex with another man. End of story.

My wife recoils in instant fury and outrage when I call her an "adulteress" or refer to her relationship with the imbecile as "adulterous." This is a HUGE sensitive area for her, and clearly tells me that she may have remembered her moral compass - and the values she was raised with by a very traditional and loving Catholic family. She just tucked her values away inside a box for a few months, but now the lid's come off. A few weeks ago, she was trying to "prove" to me that she's not a harlot. Her proof? She waited until we were physically separated before consumating her relationship with the imbecile. See, to her, she deserves a blackboard of gold stars for not going all the way with this idiot until after we no longer lived under the same roof. But, again, to me, her performing other intimate acts with him in his truck PRIOR to our separation was and is grossly unacceptable. And the fact that we live in different houses doesn't negate the fact that she's still my wife.
 
A few years from now, she might 'get' the whole picture. But I am not holding my breath.