in crisis

I know you're there for your kids, man. Never for an instant thought otherwise. Just needed to give you a little bit of a rap about the other stuff.

No doubt about it, though: this situation just stinks. You can make it; just hang tough. And remember: you can't save someone who (a) doesn't know she needs saving and/or (b) doesn't want to be saved. She's falling. Have to let her hit bottom. And even then, it might not make a difference.

Peace.

Basil Duke

I have to agree, at this point, that Basil is correct..Now, that we have figured out a bit of what MAY be going on with her...SO YOU will finally understand that ALL of this is about HER and NOT about YOU.  Listen to Basil....I haven't really helped you leave the analyzing behind by explaining things to you.

Basil...I have to take some of that Eddie Stick swat...because I wasn't exactly making MLB stop analyzing...I was enabling it...so, I will take one of the swats for him.  

I do think as soon as the H realizes that there is NOTHING that could have done that is when they truly detach.  I believe MLB is getting to that point. 

Shepherdess

MLB: Are you responding to her texts about why your D is not responding to her calls or texts?  If you are don't do that...she needs to learn that YOU aren't the facilitator of a response from your D...you are to encourage her to visit with their mother...BUT you are not your Daughter's answering service...IF she had waited a few more minutes your D would have returned the call or text letting her know that she was in the shower.  Her immediately texting or calling you to make sure that D is responding is manipulative and it is a way to make YOU dance at her command...push your buttons...it also demonstrates her insecurity about your D and the way she is feeling.  YOUR D needs to tell her mother to stop contacting you when she doesn't get an immediate response form her...she needs to reassure her that SHE is making decision about their communications and visiting...that YOU are not influencing her either way.

I would prefer that you unload here than on your children...they don't need the burden...they are having a hard enough time trying to figure this all out in relation to themselves. If you don't want us to respond or get on you for obsessing  just put "This is a VENT"  If we do think you are obsessing to much we will mention it...I can not speak for Basil...I think he will be sitting there ready to swat you with the 'Eddie Stik".

As for the opening...IF you are praying and turning her over to God like I told you to do...(Hint: you wouldn't obsess over anything if you truly have turned her over) God will reveal the opening to you...YOU won't miss it...He makes sure you won't miss it!  So...turn that woman over to God...there is really nothing else to figure out here...only SHE has the really answers...everything said here is speculation.  I don't even think she knows what is going on...she is just going with it...she is on a quest and she's taking it to the end....whatever that will be.   Time to truly release her in to God's hands.

You are actually doing quite well in light of the past week and the fact that she was at the house on Saturday picking up her belongings.

I am continuing to pray for all of you>

Shepherdess  

I have a technical question about posting a profile pic. I feel like an idiot, but the truth is, I'm a special needs case when it comes to computers. I've tried several times to download a photo to use as my profile pic, but the box within which I download a photo from my own pic files is "frozen" - and I'm unable to access the "Upload Photo" button with my cursor. (It actually can't even be seen on the screen. Apparently, the lower one/third of the upload box is hidden and inaccessible.) Does anyone have any suggestions for me? 

Like a dope I did respond to her....and told her D was in the shower. I get what you are saying, I will not respond  in the future.

The text my W sent was " Cass*** has not answered my calls or texts is she all right??"
This was after 2 calls to the house phone and I let the machine p/u

So D told her that she was busy all day ( she kinda was, and was not she just didn't want to see or talk to her W was mad at her for NOT letting her know they were not going to get together) and told her that she was at home and with me, and not to "spaz" out.

She also told the W it was 10:30 at night where else would she be?? So D did tell her not to bother me if she doesn't respond "promptly". D said she is not going to jump each time she calls, as far as she was concerned "she has no concern for my feelings, I will not drop what I'm doing for her."

So the shism between mother and daughter widens. They were together for 2 hrs saturday as W p/u some clothes. D didn't comment about the visit at all, and I didn't ask, all she said was that W was very weepy, talked alot about not seeing or talking to her son, and left very upset.

I am trying to turn it over to Him, as I said it's difficult to sit on the sidlines and sit on your hands. But I know there's nothing to be done, I may have to accept it, but I don't have to like it.

So we'll go on as we have like the last 6 weeks, and if something happens, we'll deal with it then.

I like the responses it keeps me on the path I need.

MLBHOME

I have a technical question about posting a profile pic. I feel like an idiot, but the truth is, I'm a special needs case when it comes to computers. I've tried several times to download a photo to use as my profile pic, but the box within which I download a photo from my own pic files is "frozen" - and I'm unable to access the "Upload Photo" button with my cursor. (It actually can't even be seen on the screen. Apparently, the lower one/third of the upload box is hidden and inaccessible.) Does anyone have any suggestions for me? 

-basilduke

Well, MLB, I'll say this for your wife: she's no quitter. She's been weeping hysterically for months now, right? And yet, no change from either child. Maybe some day she'll 'get it' - just like my ex finally got it with our son. It took her a few months, but the light eventually came on, and she figured out that our 14-year-old son was NEVER going to accept or bless a 24-year-old sleeping with his mother. And nor was he ever going to think anything positive about his mother for kicking his father's ass out of the house. The damage to mother and son's relationship is permanent, however. BUT the ex IS making efforts to stitch some patches on the tapestry. I just asked my son this weekend how he and his mom ae getting along, and he said, "Better. She's not nearly as angry as she has been."

For a long while, the ex was mad at my son because HE was mad at her. She found his anger disrespectful - even though she was cheating on the kid's dad at the time. It was clearly an untenable emotional situation for all involved. 

I stayed out of it, and didn't badmouth my ex. I DID tell my son that his anger and frustration was entirely justified, and encouraged him to talk plainly to his mom about his feelings. And he did.

You're doing the right thing in backing away from the mother-daughter schism. If you insert yourself in it, eventually the daughter will resent you (she'll feel pressured and manipulated) and your wife will just blame you for tainting her bond with the girl.   

Your right, she cries alot. It makes my daughter and son angry, as they are beginning to see it as some sort of manipulation or drama.

My son hasn't seen her since August but he hears about it.
The kids kinda consider her a side show now, she wanting to play the victim, nobody understands, nobody cares about my happiness and so on. My daughter displays open hostility towards the scumbag, so much that my W no longer brings him up. My son was talking this weekend again of going to rip out his esophegus.

My daughter has pretty much turned W off, and pretty much has no respect for her. No I'm not getting in between either child and their relationship with their mother. It's such a shame because the W had wonderful relationships with both children she really did. But now, who knows if anything can be salvaged.

I told both kids long ago you deal with your mother as you see fit. I don't tell either how to act or to pick sides. The W has done that for me.

Yup it's utter destruction thats for sure. I just know in the end "karma is a bitch as my son says, and it's
not us that will be sorry."

It might be that starting this new job for an advertising co. might help. It gets her out of the auto industry for good, and the environment and new hopefully more mature people will help, plus her drive will be at least 10 mins longer as the new job is closer to the house.

However, not too much to do, but get on with things I guess.

MLBHOME

I've been meaning to ask you about this: Has your daughter ever actually been in the physical presence of your wife's "roommate"? I'm guessing 'no,' but one never knows. (My son never had the pleasure of meeting Uncle Eddie.)

Also, have YOU ever actually met this human chancre - either before or after your wife's departure?

Also, does your wife and this SOB actually go out in public together - socially speaking - such as to movies or dinner and such like?

Just curious on all three subjects.

Thanks.

Basil Duke 

GOOD QUESTIONS>>>>

SHEP

We have had the pleasure of this scumbag at our dinner table when I thought I was just entertaining a friend of hers from work.

I had been in his presence socially on 3 other occasions while shook his hand and chatted with him, WHILE the affair was going on unknown to me.

And do they go out socially since she has been there??, not to our knowledge.

So my daughter was in his presence the one time at our house when we had  him over for dinner as the W sorry for him. This was before she told him her "love" for him. But both kids thought he was a "creep" and told my W so.

So yes I have met him, and I was polite as he worked at the same place as my wife ( at the time) and his BIL is a big wig at the dealership, which is how he got and keeps his job. Pretty much how he has gotten all his jobs. The BIL moves dealerships, scumbag follows.

To the best of our knowledge piecing together what she has told my daughter, MIL, YSIL, is that they live 2 separate lives meaning he has not changed his bachalor, beer drinking, golfing, hanging out with the frat boy losers, taking off for the weekend lifestyle. And she goes to work, and I guess goes back to his place and does ...whatever as he works till 7pm M-Wed. off Thurs, and till 7pm friday, and 7-6pm Saturday and heads nxt door for the evening beer fest.. She works 7:30am-4:30pm , M-F, but her drive from apt to work is at least 35-40 mins one-way, and with the new job at the ad agency it will be further yet.

Sundays he golfs all day and has beer with his golf partners, and she sits in the apt hoping to see our daughter, which our daughter never calls her to set it up. So I guess she sits there and does laundry, is what we heard.

So as far as we can tell, and since the only thing she will tell us as to why she is so "in love " w/ him is that they have great conversations, and he's funny.

Some of the boys he has beer with after work are also his co-workers and know my wife, and are not happy at the present situation, and a lady that was a friend of my wifes that works there, (she ended the friendship as she told the W she could not condone what wife is doing) keeps tabs on them and lets me know whats going on. She says she has not heard any of them say the W has been out with them, and 2 of his "buddies" dumped scumbag because they think his a pig and took advantage of a bad situation.

This guy is short, balding, beer gutted, with the personality of a HS freshman. So why is she addicted to him who knows, we don't, I don't think she knows.

My daughter is convinced she is there for a roof over her head, I said "why do you think that", and daughter says, "just some of the things she says". So i don't know.

My son wanted to go visit him on saturday, but I told him no. Scumbags time will come.

This former friend of my wifes that still works there, hated this guy before all this happened, and now really hates him. When W left this last time she would find scumbag in the showroom and loudly ask "are you still wrecking  (wife's name) family???  She says he won't come near her.

So that's that.

MLBHOME

You know MLB...I am beginning to think that she is only staying with him for a roof over her head also. They are doing FAR too much without each other for this to be a REAL affair....It just doesn't add up to a full out affair.  Maybe the affair is over and he is just allowing her to stay until she gets enough money to get on her feet.  The fact that she has another job that will definitely offer more money...makes me wonder if she is just staying there until she can get enough saved to move out.  Your D's gut feelings on this one may be right...I have been thinking this also.  They just don't sound like a real couple...I mean there is no secret any more.  The only thing I can think of is that the lawyer has told her and him to NOT be seen any where together....though living together is pretty d@mning...but you can't prove that they are doing anything .

Shepherdess

Well, you know how much can you believe???. What I told you is what I know. She tells MIL or SIL's when they communicate and BIL that she has feelings for me, but feelings for him. She told BIL back in July, what if she doesn't stay with OM, comes back to me and her "in love fellings " don't return then she has missed "happiness " with OM.

But she had and has the $$ to go to where she was before the corporate hotel room thing she was in before, but it would be closer to home and D, but further from OM. If she was saving any money which she has NEVER done in her life, it won't last long when support payments start  Nov.1.

When she left here she could have done the corporate hotel thing, and then got an apt. But she has no furniture and it's a security deposit and 6 mos lease, which when she left the first time she would not do.

So it's obvious she took the path of least resistance and went to Om when I tossed her. If she was going to be there, she should have saved her $$ to get a place closer to home and D, AND most apt complexes have some furnished apts also. Her attnys told her to get her own place when she met with them to create the divorce suit. She ignored them on the excuse of no $$, to stay at OM's. To me she screwed herself now because what she owes me she now for sure can not afford to leave there, and not paying rent, no combined social life, how long is that going to last. OR the threat of me going after him has them dailing back some.

I don't know. All I know is that now, she is dependent on him for lodging and if he tosses her, she trys to pay a corporate transition place like before, calls here, or begs on one of her uncles who said they would take her provided she give up OM, and do counseling.

You may be right. It makes no sense. I mean to her she is near him, but she has done all this horrific stuff to all of us, but there, he's not going to judge her, so she's safe.

But she has no $$ and after Nov. 1 that will get worse. Her daughter practiculy doesn't communicate with her, and the rest you know. The OM has no $$ and barely supports himself and lifestyle, so he can't help her.

Like I said I think she screwed the pooch here. She has left herself no advantagous avenues whether she knows it or not.

But who knows. Like you said this is all speculation but, I don't think we are too far off. I mean you are right the fact that she is there will provide more guilt than innocence in appearences, and she didn't listen to her lawyers before.

But in her world I'm sure all is well. As far as I know no one in their circle has seen them out ...but before this all blew where she was he was, but my spy at her old job says that they see him out for drinks almost every night but not her. For what it's worth.

I agree you'd think they would be out all over, slap and tickle everywhere, she no longer where's her rings, but it's all seemingly......bizzarre.

Now i want you and Basil to know that I was not analyzing.......just answering  your question.!!

You guys are great, and today for me...was a good day...thanks

MLBHOME

I am glad to hear that today was a good day...it will get easier as the time goes on...you will actually grow very tired of going over and over the details...it is like Einsteins says about Insanity..“The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results”

You will decide going over it again and again is insanity...and you are not that....you will leave it where it is...let her spin without you.

Shepherdess

MLB, a fear of insufficient funds had absolutely no part in my ex's game plan. She disregarded money in every way. She's broke now - and I'm paying her about three hundred dollars more a month than our settlement requires. Why? Because if she goes broke, so goes my son. Sir, to give you an idea about how wacky my ex was, in her initial "financial" statement for divorce, she conceded that she was spending about fifteen hundred dollars more a month than she was bringing in. That's one thousand, five hundred dollars in the red. Every month. And still she insisted on divorce. By her own admission, she was doomed to fail financially - and to take our kid with her.

And she didn't care.

Why?

Because she'd decided she had to get rid of me.

So...I would implore you to stop approaching this from the very logical perspective of "money." Money doesn't matter to the woman when she's in as deep as your wife. NOTHING matters. Except "him." And "him" doesn't matter, except insofar as he represents her perception of "new life." Late last year, I asked my wife, "Does the prospect of homelessness frighten you?" Her reply: "Things will work out. It'll be hard, but I just figure I'll be able to make it."

She was able to "make it" for about two or three months. That's when I sucked it up and started doling out the dollars to her so she wouldn't lose my son's primary home.

And, yes, MLB, she's still cock sure she did the right thing in getting rid of me.

I need to give some mad love to that spy of yours. What a great gal, to be calling out your wife's roomie at work like that. "Hey, pus bag, are you still wrecking MLB's family??!!!" Awesome. And brave - considering the jerk's brother runs things. I'd like to think there were at least a handful of similarly indignant and moral folks at my ex's place of employment, folks who called Uncle Eddie out and shunned him.

But I doubt there were. The whole outfit seems corrupt to the soul. At least two of them volunteered their homes for trysting purposes in the early going. And when I ran into a small shoal of them a couple of weeks ago at a bar down the street from Bachelor Island, they were uniformly hostile to me. Like I'd done something awful - like gotten mad because one of their co-workers was having sex with my wife.

I later told my ex that I found it ridiculous that her work pals view me with such hostility, considering that my 'crime' consisted of being cheated on and divorced. "Well, they're mad at you because they watched me cry so many times at work, when you were doing all those awful things to Eddie and writing me those horrible, angry emails! You know how sensitive I am."

Like I've said before, there's no use searching for rational thought in a person this confused. 

I" send you a private e-mail and you can see a picture of her. She was cheated on and is divorced so this whole thing she is very sensitive to. She said she and another lady friend there tried till they were blue in the face to talk the W out of this when wife worked there.

She dumped W as friend when wife continued the relationship after insisting to us she had stopped it when she came home. She is from Louisiana, and brokes no $*it.

So she keeps tabs on things there, let's me know what's happening and at the last meeting with my wife back in July when the W said she wanted a divorce this friend replied, " if you don't want him, I'll take him, because good guys are hard to find".

As far as brave she works in Finance/Administration and OM BIL is VP of sales at the dealership.

The W called D last night crying as something happened but we don't know what, she would not tell D.
But D said she "bawled" the entire call and D barely could understand her. So D ended the call, and said,
"I don't think things are all rosey over there".

W called her mother yesterday morning and it was a 5 min call. W said she was excited for her new job, she starts in 2 weeks, said this is more of what she likes to do, so MIL was encouraged about that. My FIL refused to speak to her.

Check your private email, she is a very attractive lady, and has been great to me and the kids thru this, like I said, she got cheated on too.

MLBHOME

 The W called D last night crying as something happened but we don't know what, she would not tell D.But D said she "bawled" the entire call and D barely could understand her. So D ended the call, and said, "I don't think things are all rosey over there".

-mlbhome

The fantasy is falling apart!!! What's the date again?  Is it three months yet?

Check your private email, she is a very attractive lady, and has been great to me and the kids thru this, like I said, she got cheated on too.  

-mlbhome

You be careful...keep this attractive woman at your W's old job at arms length...I can hear the male cogs turning what a great revenge that would be especially since she voiced her willingness to take you on if your W didn't want you no more.  How the heck did you get a picture of this woman?  I bet she has been nice to you...helpful to you and the kids...BE Careful!!!  Just my gut speaking here.

Shepherdess