in crisis

Basil:

You are doing the right thing...hunkering down...taking a break...going it easy IS the smart way to go at this time in your life...It will allow you to heal.

My heart breaks when I read what is happening and the most recent turn of events...but it doesn't surprise me much.  Be careful with telling these enablers off...the last thing you need is for her to call the cops or place a restraining order on you for telling it like it is/was.  Stay low and keep your mouth shut about these people....it is anger and words expressed in vain at this point.  The last thing you need is someone trying to stir the pot...you may be divorced...but there is still a "pot"...and it is still a boil!  Be careful!

Rest, take it easy, focus in on YOU...take care of your son...give yourself a break for once. 

I am proud of you.  Thank you for all the help you give here at the forum...I have needed you quite a bit this past summer...I appreciate and am grateful for your presence.

Shepherdess

Hello, Shepherdess. I'm glad to share my modest insight with my fellow sufferers - particularly if it gives you some level of assistance. Sometimes, it's cathartic, sometimes aggravating - but I try my best to help.

Point taken about blistering the enablers. There's no question this one would take legal action if she could. That's a hassle I don't need. But I won't lie; it felt really good to unload on her.

As with all other steps through this, it was left to me to inform my son that our divorce was final. I asked the ex if she'd bothered to share the news, and she said, "He knows we're going through with, but I haven't told him the papers have been signed." I quickly corrected her about the "we" pronoun. "Well, it looks like I'll have to tell him that YOU - not 'we' - finalized the divorce. I'm not taking responsibility for this. You forced the entire thing on me." She didn't say anything. That day, I did in fact tell our son that the deal was done, and asked him if he was okay. "Yeah," he said, "this thing was pretty much inevitable after what she's done."

He's with me right now. I just fed him some Lunchables (pepperoni pizza-ettes), yogurt and orange juice, and we're watching a diabolically gross documentary about pythons that swallow animals so large that their bellies burst. Wrestling's on later! So...life goes on. Moms and wives may go totally off the rails, and their loved ones get crushed in the wreckage, but you CAN escape. I'm still climbing out, but things are much better now than in December - as you well know.  

How will the W react.??  I don't know. This was not an obscure uncle, as all the family lived within a small area and got together for holidays, B-days, you name it everybody was there.

MIL/FIL would not call wife (their daughter) to let her know of his passing, they had ESIL do it. W can't get there as it is in Ohio, and she can not get off work, no $$ for plane ticket, and she told her sister that she wishes she could be there for her Dad (it was his brother that passed) and ESIL told her that her presence would just add to an upsetting situation.

How the W took that...don't know. 

 W asked D on Saturday if any of her friends knew of our situation, D said two do, as they spend alot of time at house, but they don't know details. W didn't want anymore friends knowing.

D met with her VB coach this afternoon after talking to me last night that things at home are effecting her concentration when playing. They met for about 20 mins, and her coach had noticed that she has been off in her playing, D said she was very helpful and understanding having come from a similar situation from her own parents. She said she will spend some extra time w/ D during and after practice to help her focus and concentrate and also will monitor her school work and tutor if needed.
D felt alot better then.

Shep she did read the paragrapgh you sent and appreciates you taking the time to explain that to her.
D told me after school today that she will have to tell W that trying to see her during the week is next to impossible due to her school schedule, VB, homework. It's 11pm and she just now finished her homework.

I hope your tests go well....

MLBHOME
I told her you did not create this situation and you should not suffer for it.

So your wife doesn't want any more of your daughter's friends knowing. Isn't that something. Seems to be the standard MO. At least it was with my ex. She didn't want ANYone knowing. Some very close members of her own family had no idea we were even having problems until about a month ago - a few weeks before the divorce was final - and ten months after we separated. (Neither one of us is from St. Louis; our families live several hours away.) Although ex finally mustered the courage to let her clan know that our 25-year relationship was dead, I can guarantee you she didn't share the juicy little bit about the 24-year-old. Why is that, MLB? And why doesn't your wife want anyone knowing about her own pathetic lifestyle?
 
Simple. They know what they're doing/did is wrong and unacceptable in our culture. And they're ashamed of themselves. And yet still they persist. One would think that if these 'relationships' were so wonderous and magical, the ladies would be eager to share their glory with the entire world. But of course, it's not like that. A 43-year-old woman fornicating with a 23-year-old imbecile (and exploding her family over it) doesn't set well with mainstream America. Neither does a 47-year-old mother of two teens who abandons her family to shack up with a middle-aged, never-been-married loser whose sister still feeds him. They KNOW they're wrong, but won't turn back. But, shhhhhhhhh! Don't tell anybody! They might get the right idea, after all.
 
For the record, I outted my ex to everybody. I wasn't going to be complicit in keeping her wretched little secret. As far as I was concerned, she earned every ounce of scorn the info sent her way.
 
Basil Duke
Moderator
St. Louis, MO
 
 

I agree. That's why she gave me a hard time last week for not sitting together at D VB game. I took Shep's advice  and sat away from her. W was worried about appearences. Shep said, you're not together, she's living with OM, if people ask tell them we are not together and she's living with OM....it's not a lie.

So if people ask .... that's what I tell them. Plus you know teenage girls, they tell 2 friends and so on, and so on.

I mean what is she going to do to me, leave, go live w/ another guy.

I understand from D that W spoke with FIL last nite as MIL made him take call. Understand he listened to what she said (whatever it was , sorry about Uncle****) but he said thanks, hung up.

And so it goes

MLBHOME

"What's she gonna do? Leave me and go live with another guy?" Yep, you've got it, MLB. I said something similar when people cautioned me about 'outting' my ex. I figured, how much worse can it get? She's summarily evicted me from my life - without giving me any chance whatsoever to try and salvage something of it. She's fornicating with a recent college graduate she's known for less than two months - and claims to love as a "soul mate" connection. She's filed for divorce against me, conspired with her boy toy to have a specious restraining order placed against me...etc. and et. al. There IS some empowerment on our end. Once the cattle have been shooed out the door, there's no reason to NOT burn the barn down - particularly if a new farmer's trying to move his own herd into it. Scorched earth.

I feel very sad for your father-in-law. This has got to be tearing him up. Poor fellow.  

Shep, Basil

No analyzing, but this is what I confirmed today

She did not go out on the usual friday night drinks, but OM did, drank much too much. This was told to me by "allies" that were with him.

He golfed all day Sunday. like he does every Sunday. Sunday was W's 48th B-day. He left her in apt all day. After golf, beers with the boys.

She wants to spend the rest of her life w him. Hope it's fun

MLBHOME

He sounds like a dreamboat! The S.S. Bag o' Human Pus, steaming into port. 

Went to D volleyball game, 1st game wife sat away from me, then 2nd and 3rd game she moved and sat 2 rows in front of me. No speaking.

After games I let W and daughter visit a little, I stood off to the side.
As W walked to the car I stopped her and gave her my attorney's card and said "I just wanted you to know I meant what I said." She stopped looked at the card and began crying, (she was crying and hugging D all along).

D came up and said to pick her up at W's car so they could walk a little further together.


After a few minutes D got in car and we left. Daughter said W was so upset, that D was afraid for her to drive ( W has 35-40 min. drive back to OM's) so daughter made me pull off till she saw W coming down road.

So I did see an attorney today, said I'm in a very strong position to recieve full custody and child support from her for D. Also due to her behavior, leaving twice, adultery, and my efforts to try and save marriage it should be favorable to me as I have stable home, and also to protect assets since I will be supporting kids. Also have formulated a plan if things should go south. In some way I felt better, he comes highly recommended from a friend who had messy divorce and he did her well.

So, I'm going under the radar let some of this sink in

MLBHOME

Yessss! Let her continue to soak in her ice bath, MLB Home. She is, as far as I can tell, entirely isolated - save for dreamboat (and he doesn't seem all that sympathetic). She's an island unto herself. I can only imagine what kind of snotty mess she'll be at her uncle's funeral - when she has to face her father, look into her mother's eyes, etc. Be prepared for some heavy duty tension and emotion. It'll be ugly.

Good job on the attorney card move. Perfect. Unemotional, clinical, carried through on your word. 

Mr. Basil Duke, from up St. Louis way
Moderator

Hey BasilDuke,

The W can't go to funeral do to work, (just started the job), no $$$ for a plane ticket ( we live in Tx, she would have to go to Ohio) and ...elder sister said it was best that work and money prevented it as father does not want her there due to present situation.

At end of VB game she was hugging daughter and crying so much a cop came over to see if she was alright. She was sitting in parking lot crying when D and I left, that's D made me pull over till we saw her pull out.

I'm just gonna go under radar for a bit now. The attorney card was straight business like....I do feel better after attorney meeting and the strength of my position....I guess a little piece of mind in mad world

i was still wondering Sheperdess what is the "crash". Can you give me an idea of what that is, what happens and so on.

Also through your expierence what do you believe, I love you, but not in love with means?"

Thanks

MLBHOME

Everyone has been very quiet. Is there a storm building??

Shepherdess I hope your health has not kept you away.

Not much new here, W is ditching D VB game to night to go to some former co-worker B-day party, called D last night to see if she would mind...what's the poor girl gonna say?? After all said and done D said she was pi$$ed about being put in that spot. I told her next time don't let her manipulate you, and if you're angry about being dumped by her so she can do something else, then be honest and tell her. My son will drive in from college to go see his sister play now that W not going.

Texted W to remind her that she owes me check for her personal expenses ( like cell phone) or I will cut them off. She quickly said she will pay me. I reminded her that she should plan on this being a monthly bill for her, till legal proceedings are determined. I have gotten no response on that.

D went to dinner with W Wed. night as she had no VB practice and little homework. She hit wife repeatedly with conesuling with Shep, and how much my consult with her helped me. She said wife talked some about it, asked some questions. D felt it was the most interest W has shown in it. D hit her also with where she is living. W made no mention of lawyer at all. D said W did ask repeatedly about me, how was I, what was I doing, so on.

I'm wondering if she has thrown the lawyer issue on her denial pile?? Also what is the "crash, and " and Shep to you what does "I love you but not in love with you mean??"

MLBHOME

Hola, Senor MLB Home. My take on "I love you but I'm not IN love with you": she's fond of you but doesn't want to have sex with you.

I'm deadly serious about this. It's a woman's way of saying, 'sorry, but I've found someone else I'd rather sleep with." I got the same nonsense from my ex-wife on October 4, 2008. She followed it up by announcing that "I've given my heart to [college turd] and I'm not going to stop pursuing him. I can't turn away from this. It's too strong. We have such an unbelievable connection." Translated: "I'm going to have sex with the college turd."

And that's exactly what she did. In my purely amateur opinion, a woman NEVER hits her husband with the "I love you but..." bullcrap unless there's another dude in the wings, eager and ready to destroy your family and entire way of life.

Over and out, hombre!

Basil Duke
St. Louis, MO
Moderator

I am so sorry that I haven't been on here very long in the past few days.  I was out of commission all day Tuesday with my testing and then yesterday our female Golden Retriever took a turn for the worse and we have been at the Vet most of the day...thinking when we left that she wouldn't be returning with us.  Praise God! Our dear sweet Libby came home with us with a bunch of medications and a new diet to try...and the hope that she will be on the mend in a week or so.  We are not out of the woods yet...yet there is HOPE!

As you have asked here is the answer to your Crash and Burn question.  I will follow with the "I Love You But I am Not In Love With You" one in a bit or by tomorrow.  I hope this helps.  Please ask questions or for clarifications...it will ultimately help me as this is a part of a chapter in my book.

The Crash and Burn!!!

The crash and burn is pretty much the same as a crash and burn that is observed when an addict/alcoholic is flat on their face and looking at reality…the truth and KNOWING that the only option that they have is HELP, whether it be counseling, returning home and living within the boundaries, following the rules, working very hard at regaining respect and trust from those that love them, but are NOT enabling them.

The crash and burn in many cases can appear in many ways.  Some people go off the deep end partying, drinking, and drugging…many affairs…one right after the other.  Not eating or living healthy, or conversely, doing these things obsessively….extreme physical fitness, eating habits, NO SLEEP.  They can also become extremely depressed, quiet, severe panic attacks, anxiety…pulling away from being social…sleeping ALL the time…Bazaar behavior, lack of interest, concentration and inability to make decisions.  Some can even appear to have Bi-polar or manic like symptoms, yet not be bi-polar OR manic at all.  A person who is crashing and burning really doesn’t have control over it any longer; the train is a runaway train…they will choose partying all night over getting a good night’s rest, so they can’t go to work.  They will choose the OP over their children and family members…they will even risk their money, home, car…bank account to feed their addiction…even if it is another person.  Children of any age should NOT be allowed to stay with a person that is in the Crash and Burn stage.   Neglect is possible at this time.  A person who can hardly take care or make good decisions for themselves should NOT be responsible for taking care of children or even teenagers.

Signs of the Crash:

(Note: Many of the following are symptoms that occur throughout the MLC but at varying degrees.  When I mention them here at this stage…they are SEVERE or EXTREME)

1. Panic Attacks/Anxiety

2. Severe Depression/Sadness

3. Haggard look; unkempt looks about their hair, clothing, teeth, poor hygiene; Dark circles under their eyes; Loss of weight.

4. Complaints of foggy feeling, lack of concentration or ability to focus.

5. Insomnia or sleep disturbances; sleeping all the time; not wanting to socialize on any level, over sleeping.

6. Erratic behavior; Extreme Highs and extreme Lows.

7. A feeling of helplessness, alone…lack of hope.

8.  Extreme suppressed anger, outbursts of tears and/or anger.

During this time as the partner or spouse (though you mustn’t enable them) should be attentive to these symptoms or inform friends, co-workers or others of the importance of these symptoms, along with encouraging counseling on an individual basis or even group therapy for depression, addiction, or Separation/Divorce. 

Suicide, although rare in many of these occasions, should never be dismissed as a possibility.  If for ANY reason you think your spouse or partner is suicidal… immediately contact someone who can help them or take them to the Emergency Room yourself.  Until you are divorced, as a spouse (in most states) you still can legally have them committed.  You are doing this for their own good, safety and future with their family.  Ensure you have just cause to do this and consult your lawyer on this topic if you are concerned.  The only time you do this is if they are a danger to themselves and/or to others.

Most women in MLC will no longer justify, blame, and re-write history or rational-lie about things that have happened or happening.  They GIVE UP the fight…They GIVE UP the flight.  They find themselves flat on their faces or backs, unable to think, move…even feeling emotions hurts.  They are exhausted physically and mentally.  Women in MLC at this point NEED to be taken care of, just like a person who has gone through a severe trauma or difficult surgery. 

They are at the bottom…the only way is UP!

Yet, some choose to stay DOWN!

Staying down for a while is a good thing as long as healing is occurring at this time.  Staying down and getting stuck there can occur if you enable your partner/spouse to roll around in their depression/grief…hurt and pain.  Counseling is a MUST at this point!  In fact, going twice a week will be beneficial or more if your therapist deems it needed.  If they work, a vacation or sabbatical from the work environment is suggested.  All responsibilities in the home environment should be dialed back.  The only concern for the woman in MLC should be regaining their health mentally and physically; being able to focus inward on themselves within the safety of their home or within the home of a family member.

- Survival Guide for Men: Women in MLC

 My take on "I love you but I'm not IN love with you": she's fond of you but doesn't want to have sex with you.And that's exactly what she did. In my purely amateur opinion, a woman NEVER hits her husband with the "I love you but..." bullcrap unless there's another dude in the wings, eager and ready to destroy your family and entire way of life.

-basilduke

Well, I guess this could be true in some cases...okay in many cases...at least from the males point of view BUT the woman has been thinking this for a long time...even before the OM has come on the scene...she just never verbalizes it. It is a part of the "Running Silent Stage".  You finally hear it whenan OM  is sniffing around or after he has made his move.

WHY? 

How do you get to the "I love you, but I am not IN love with you" statement?

When running silent she is hoping that this feeling goes away...that something will happen to stir those old feelings of LUST again within the marriage. You know the excitement; thrill...butterflies...the yearning for the CRUSH that women/men have… the Romance…the beginnings of a "love affair."  The things that even researchers; medical and/or psychological, tell us occurs only within the first six months to year of a relationship AND are primarily governed by hormones that the brain releases when in the FIRST stage of love.  The first stage of LOVE is LUST...it is hormonal. It is temporary actually...it is NOT true love.  

When couples lose their ability to communicate with one another, start keeping score; becoming distant and no longer sharing each other's interests and activities; being resentful and bitter over situations within the family unit...AND then...stuffing ALL these feelings down inside as NOT to upset the apple cart, rock the boat or walk softly over eggshells.....slowly, but surely it becomes harder and harder to tell your partner "I love you."  How can they?  How can they allow themselves to love you, when they have stuffed so much, while also allowing themselves to build a wall of resentment and anger up against you?  They think to themselves: "Love you?  I don't even like you anymore....yeah, we have a history that I love...but I can hardly remember that history because it is being distorted by all this resentment, bitterness and anger I have against you. I can't see you through this wall...

This wall I speak of is NOT a wall that YOU built....SHE built it!  It is a wall that she has built silently...you may have thought everything was fine and dandy...You were oblivious to it all.  

This wall of resentment, bitterness and anger grows to the point that your partner convinces themselves that the only way that they can get back at you OR cause a wake-up call in YOUR behavior is to get back at you. This is where score keeping plays a role or the “I deserve” or “I am owed” can be rationalized.  It also gives permission to act in ways that are not appropriate, such as: partying too much, going out with girl’s and flirting, chatting up another man on-line, connecting with the guy at work (whoever). 

Yes, the “I love you, but I am NOT in love with you” statement normally is heard after the OM  is on the scene….the reason why is because the women’s FIRST thoughts about falling out of love with you has been confirmed.  She is not feeling LUST for you…but she is feeling IS for the OM...it is the feeling that she thinks she has lost with in your relationship  THIS MUST BE IT!

I love my husband because of our history, family what we have together…BUT I don’t even like my husband because I resent him, feel bitterness and anger toward him…I don’t like him right now and now I know why….because I don’t feel the feelings that I feel when I am with OM….so, I guess I am not IN love with my husband anymore.

Being “in love” with someone is a feeling or emotions…in reality it isn’t love at all…it is lust.

Loving someone is the acts, gestures, treatment; history created and built; beliefs about a person.

It is a very confusing statement to make because it really says a lot and packs a huge punch when said out loud….yet it doesn’t explain it all! 

Believe it or not, there are women who say this statement and there isn’t an OM….it finally rises to the top when it can no longer be kept silent…..the presence of an OM only forces it out of her mouth faster….that is all!!! 

It has nothing to do with sex!!  

That is a different story completely...Women don't really have affairs to have sex...they have them for the emotions and to fill their self-esteem holes...sex is the price they pay.

Thanks Shepherdess, I really believe that's what Basil was trying to say!

That explaination makes perfect sense and it is another piece in my wife's puzzle that fits perfectly. Geez, she is a poster child for MLC.

As you can see by my earlier posts I played the lawyer card and added to her already emotional state that evening. ESIL told me last night that W has been calling MIL/FIL daily crying, over not being there for uncle funeral, not being there for her Dad, the way things are. FIL still will not speak to her, MIL takes her call listens and tells her only she (W) can fix things and it's been her decisions that have brought her and our family to the brink. MIL has been telling her that they support me in any desicion I have to make emotionally and financhially concerning legal action.

They have told her repeatedly that they will not help her in anyway until she is out of this situation, back home AND in counseling.

So I and my son have been completely detached, she has texted him twice in the last day or so but he has not responded. D is angry for being blown off yesterday, and her patience with W is thin.

So another holiday weekend...after the 4th of July that's when she made overtures to come back home. Not expecting it, but crazier things have happened.

Getting easier on me the longer she is away, as this time I have no compassion or understanding for her, just anger. As you said I'm trying to keep it a righteous anger, a helpful anger, and not hurtful.

Thank you for the 2 explainations above, I just want to know so IF something happens, (I am not kidding myself I'm preparing for the worst) I can recognize it.

But other then all that, weekend with the kids.

MLBHOME

I am not so sure that this is what Basil meant...most men think that their wives are out for the SEX only, which they are not...this is why the Internet Affair amongst women has exploded in the last few years. It is a way of meeting this need without becoming physical...it is just talk...it can be explained away...it doesn't hurt anyone...they think!  Yet in reality it hurts just as bad...it is still keeping secrets, lieing about things AND a betrayal!  No matter how you look at it...having an affair is a big risk and a high price to pay to fill a hole, when there are so many positive ways to do the same thing...and more long lasting too.




Shepherdess




PS please let your D  read this: You need to move in to the same category as your Dad and your brother...You have given your mother enough chances...the last thing she did should be the last straw.

You are being manipulated to be the enabler in the situation...this is the way that your mother is keeping her hand on the family.  Time to cut her off...don't let her manipulate and use you. She has hurt your feelings by choosing the OM and her partying friends yet again.  No lunches, diners, shopping dates...meeting in front of the house to talk...she blew it!!! Your mother needs to realize this fact OR she will continually disappoint you...over and over again...Why do this to this yourself...you are a kindhearted girl?  This is when you must impress upon her that you can't allow her to hurt you over and over again. Please consider this and if you see what I am saying then please let your mother know....it is what she needs to hear right now...she needs to hear that she is losing everything...even you! 

MLB: Encourage her to go in to the same mode as your son and the rest of family...until she (W) does what is right...there will be no sympathy or contact until!  You may have to come in behind your D to reiterate her decision, letting your W know that she has made this decision herself. 
 

Try to have a nice last weekend of the summer!  If you need to talk...I am here when you need.



Shep

Shepherdess's observation that "sex is the price they [wandering/MLC wives] pay," really struck a chord with me. AFTER my ex-wife's affair had ended but BEFORE our divorce was final, I realized that she was driven almost frantic with anger and shame when I referred to her relationship with the college turd as "adultery" - or referred to either of them as "adulterers." I mean, it really triggered something painful in her. She actually shrieked "stop using that word!" at me - a demand I honored, once I realized what it was doing to her.

My take? My ex-wife was the picture of old school Catholic morality, raised as one of 11 children in a small central Illinois community. She epitomized a lady's elegance - carried herself with great dignity and self-respect. And in a very short period of time, she bolted from that history and value system and bedded a punk young enough to be her son. As far as I know, this was her first foray into adulteress sex. And what a tawdry introduction it was - fornicating with a recent college graduate whom she'd known for several months. What a sour and dirty feeling it must have infused in her mind. I can only imagine that the price she paid in her desperate search to fill the void in her heart and soul must have been terrible indeed, and far from worth it.

I saw her this morning, when she brought our son to my apartment so I could say goodbye to him before they left town for the weekend. I was floored by her thinness. A friend had recently seen her in the grocery store, and told me "She looks like a 10-year-old boy." An apt comparison. I'll bet she doesn't weigh 90 pounds. And she's five feet six inches tall. The hot water heater at my ex-house is broken, and there's no hot water, so she hadn't showered. She looked feeble and worn. And when they were leaving, she grabbed me and hugged me violently. Poor girl.

But these are her choices, MLB. She ordered up the affair and the divorce, and this is what it's come to.

An awful price, indeed. Not just for my son and me, either.  

Hold the line, MLB!

Basil Duke
St. Louis, MO
Moderator