For Your Consideration: Childhood Issues and Birth Order

I'm the youngest of 3 (1 boy and 2 girls) and that is absolutely on target.

My life partner is a baby but tracks out more like a first born. She's a Scorpio and the youngest of 2 (she has an older brother.) Translation: She totally mixes up your theory but that might be due to # of siblings, personality or just b/c we're two women in a relationship vs a male/female couple.

Hi Shepherdess...wow there are sure are a lot of Scorpios in this thread. Me too, a Scorpio firstborn male in the Babies birth order, with one older sister. My W is a firstborn Virgo.

My wife is the third of 4. She has 2 older sisters and a younger brother. All but my wife are divorced (but it looks like we are now on that road as well sadly).

Not sure if this is relevant, but my wife's family (parents and siblings) were very driven - by working hard, achieving results (e.g. academic success), and always showing that they can cope. My wife always felt inferior because she did not achieve grades as good as her siblings - even though she is bright and intelligent. All the family have felt they must be strong for others and so they have struggled to say "I have problems" (until it is too late).

Some interesting questions here. In terms of who she relates me to, I think (but it is a theory) it would be her dad. [Her father died when he was 49 and my wife was 19.] A few months into our problems she briefly talked about her anger about one aspect of her parents' relationship. She felt that her mum had been a bit of a doormat (in the name of being a Christian submissive wife). He wasn't abusive but he did tend to put work and other people before his wife and family. I have tried to be sensitive to that through our marriage (e.g. spending a lot of time with the family, always letting her know if I had to be late from work), but other areas in our marriage have now emerged in which she feels I was controlling and she "had to be submissive". This reminds her of the dynamic between her mum and dad. This may be behind her rebellion towards Christianity.

Who made her feel inferior? I would say a bit of her (she doesn't seem to accept compliments and praise), and a lot of family. When I first got to know her family I observed that she was teased quite a bit by her parents and siblings and sometimes this was a bit cruel (it annoyed me). I can see why that would make her feel inferior. Also, there has always been high value placed on academic success, and she did not do as well in exams as her dad (PhD) or her siblings (straight A students). My wife is intelligent, and always shone out to me as the member of the family who had the best interpersonal skills - but I am not sure these skills were as highly valued in her family. (These tensions in her family helped bond us in the early days of our relationship - to me she was the special one out of the family of achievers and I told her that regularly. Throughout our marriage she was not that close to her family - instead we were a very close family unit which was quite independent of both our families. What surpised and upset me was that when things started going wrong she turned from me to her older sister - the matriarch.)

I have felt that some of the issues my wife is facing are down to things in he childhood, but my wife will not want to hear that because it sounds like I am not facing up to my responsibilities/faults. Also, I am not in a position to suggest she digs into these things (I know she does not want me to try to "fix" her). She thinks that all the problems in the M/R are about me.

I have found your postings here and on PathPartners full of insight. I am struck by the thought that ultimately my wife needs to see that she is responsible for her life and that she can choose how she responds to others (including me). If she could start to see that I believe that there would be hope for our marriage. But at the moment she just wants to run and not look back. What helped you to see that it wasn't just about others but it was about you?

"First Born: The Boss, The Caretaker, The Trailblazer, The Dictator, in charge, makes their desires known, gets what they want, hard driving, goal oriented, a risk taker. They are the leader of the pack, stubborn, tough...maybe thick skinned, very little tolerance for weakness. They know what they want and go for it! Their job is to blaze the trail for the others, while keeping order amongst their siblings. They will fight to the death. They have the need to be in control.

Middle Child: The Peacemaker, The Compromiser, The Negotiator, Quiet, asks for and happy with little, will avoid confrontation, easily makes friends and social. They will not ask for help if it will rock the boat. Private and calm, allows others to shine, while they work behind the scenes. They tend to stuff their emotions to remain invisible in the family unit, avoids confrontation. Their job is to keep the peace, even if it means that they take themselves out of all negative situations in the family. They will watch a good fight, but not get involved in it. They relinquish control to others the majority of the time."

Can you be both??? I know that sounds strange, but can you?? I was technically a middle child, but was raised as a first born. My older brother is 6 yrs older than I am and pretty much was out of our lives when I was 8'ish I think. So I became the emotional "first born" to my sister from then on. Which then triggers in me my feelings of split personalities, bi-polar tendacies, etc... I'm not those, but I feel like it. I feel I sabatoge myself most of the time because I feel I am both of those. I conflict with myself. On one hand I'm head strong, take charge, dictator, task oriented, entrepernurial minded and lead when needed. The opposite of course is that I also am a private person, LOATH confrontation, I'm a peacemaker pretty much at whatever costs to me, I don't ask for much or need to make a statement about anything, I LOVE working in the back ground and making others look good (matter of fact I smile just thinking about that) which a total opposite of being a entrep. and a leader...geesh, I'm messed up no wonder I don't feel so successful. I don't know who to be.

So can you be both or am I just skitzo (i know the spelling isn't right)????

Thanks Shepherdess. This does answer my question very helpfully. Sadly, I don't know how my wife will get to the point you got to. She does not want to talk to a counsellor (and certainly not a Christian counsellor) and I am not sure she would read a book if I offered her one. I can only pray!
I am reluctant to even offer her a book as I am scared she will see me as trying control her/fix her and just add to the anger. (I have already ordered Worn Out Woman on your advice on other postings.)

I will bear in mind ordering future books via your link in future.

I'm a middle/first born as stated in a previous post (oldest girl/middle of 3). My H is a first born. I'm in a MLC so H should be able to help me navigate through this o.k. (theoretically)??? I feel other factors play a role in birth order relationships and MLC.

Childhood Abuse, death of a parent, Alcoholism to name a few play a role in how one clings to their "B.O. Traits" or not. I mean you can have a first born who should be a leader and risk taker, etc..., but traumas in his/her life can affect how one steers toward and possesses that trait or whether is ever able to acknowledge that within them.

So if that were true how could a H help navigate a W in MLC when the H's traits aren't predominant and the W is non-functional for the most part???

Make any sense??

Kevin Leman in his book "the Birthorder Book" talks about the 5 year rule.
If there is more than 5 years between 2 same-sex siblings, they take on the characteristics of a first-born.
This is true of me.
Youngest of 7, but all three girls 5 years apart.
I still have many first-born tendencies, yet many last-born.

Another thought to add; TWINS. Or multiple births.

My twins are fraternal and are my oldest children.
But the one who was born FIRST is definitely the FIRST-BORN in her nature.

Birth-order is very helpful in understanding our role in our family, but as has already been mentioned; it is not the only factor that comes into play in 'why we do what we do.'
Still; it is worth looking at.

I personally found a lot of understanding about myself when I did the "Myers-Briggs" personality test.

sorry this is going off on another tangent, but magdalene, have you ever been on the Davinci Nations site?? Your name and the mention of myers-briggs test makes me think so...just wondering. :0)

40andnowwhat; no, I haven't been on the Davinci Nations site.... don't know what it is; but will check it out.
:)

Hi,

I am new here, and will post about what I am going through in the approriate place. But, I saw this and wanted to say it sounds perfect.

I am the 2nd child out of 4. I am the only girl, and have all of the first born traits. Only a couple of the middle child.

My H is the baby and they all fit him to a T, but the span between him and his brother is 10 yrs, so he also has many of the first born traits.

I thought this was very interesting.